What is "believing (or not believing) in God?"

[Hoodoo_Ulove]

I suggested that Liberal statement that “. . . even an atheist can believe in God essentially merely by valuing and facilitating goodness as He does.” was insulting to atheists.

@Liberal

On the contrary, it recognizes the validity of their viewpoint. It is not necessary that God exist to be essential.

So I. if I’m a good boy, am (essentially) a believer, whether I believe (existentially) or not? Doesn’t this appropriate all goodness to “Him”? It’s kind of like a racist telling a black man that he likes that “I don’t think of YOU as a nigger”.

[jeffh3000]

@Polycarp

I think I’d give you a “No, not quite” to your first impression of what was said. “Believe in” in the theistic usage means, in essence, assume the “child” role in a parent/child relationship, considered transactionally. It can be a very mature and caring child, but that role nonetheless. It has elements of, and may in individuals focus on any one of, storgic love, agapetic love, erotic love, philial love, fear, awe, worship, respect, trust, loyalty, and that odd emotion for which there’s no common name that comprises the sense of being an enthusiastic participant following a charismatic leader in a common cause…

Thanks for clarifying

Ok, I now follow what you are saying here regarding theists and the term “believe in”. Unforunately, I have to respecfully disagree that most theists automatically believe this, assuming by theist usage you primarily mean christians and jews in North America (muslims may or may not be a bit different, but I can’t attest to that either way). While this may be true of some christians, I would say that the average christian or jew has a less defined view of God. To them, “believe in” would simply mean that they believe in God, not the secondary meaning you are referring to. This could be due to many reasons including the possibilty that it never even occurred to them to consider the specific nature of their relationship to god or that simply their relationship or view of god is much more intanagable than you describe. This also does not necessarily make them a bad christian either (as a side note).

I think that I tend to go more with the definition of belief in this matter:
Belief
Source 1
"Definition: Something believed, i.e., accepted as true.

Example: Most religions of the world hold the belief that the universe was created by a divine, unseen being. "
Source 2
"1. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something
2. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons. "

Believe:
“1. To accept as true or real
2. To have firm faith, especially religious faith”

Therefore to “believe in God” means to accept God as real by definition, and not necessarily a deeper meaning. Which would mean the same as believing that God exists

@Polycarp

What “most people” do is not determined by the sample of your friends, family and acquaintances or by mine; I made it clear that I was speaking of how most active theists regard the term vs. how most atheists, agnostics, and “nominal theists” use it, with no intent to set one usage as “better than,” or more commonly used than, the other.

“Most people” is defined by exactly that : most people. In this case lets narrow it to those that are of the christian majority and anyone else who truely believes in God in terms with the general guidelines of that majority. I will admitt that the phrase “most people” does tend to be a very sweeping statement.

I still dare say that as defined above, you will find to “most people” that “believing in God” simply means to them that they believe in his existance. This is not to say that they don’t have a deeper relationship or beliefs as you described, it is not what is likely going to be what is brought to mind by the average person within this group upon asking the question “do you believe in God.”

Also what would your nominal theist be? Is that basically someone that is an agnostic?