Do you think that cognitive dissonance is possibly actually cross talk among neurons? Like those times where someone seems so close to the real truth that it seems like they are being intentionally disingenuous rather than merely wrong? Like maybe they both know that they are wrong and think they are right simultaneously but due to a faulty wire the ability to parse that information is hijacked?
My inital thought was no, but I amend that to maybe.
Found this cite quoting a study which indicates that handedness is an indicator of belief in creationism and specifically says (quoting Stephen Christman, Ph.D., Professor of Psychology ,University of Toledo*)…
Obviously creationism takes a good deal of cognative dissonance (well, obviously to ME but not to them.)
But…this is just one cite, on one form of cognative dissonace so I’m not inclined to totally give up my inital call of bullshit . I’m still think that people willfully ignore evidence because they have a lot of their life tied up into an incorrect belief.
In other words, if Ken Ham gave up his congnative dissonace regarding creationism, how would he eat? I like to think he willfully disregards evidence to the contrary because it would change his whole life, not because he’s truly unable to grasp why creationism is stupid.
*As an aside, it appears Dr. Christman has done a lot of research into handedness and right/left brain effects on all sorts perceptual issues, and I am now going to try to do some fascinated link clicking when I get home from work.
I’d love to give you the benefit of the doubt, pal-o-mine, but after all these years of you reaching conclusions I don’t share and which, because they are mine, are unassailable? Sorry, bro. 
So that explains all those conservatives.:dubious:
Heh, he meant handedness, but the article linked then notes both W and Clinton are lefthanded. Sadly the article is not the study but a commentary on it, I couldn’t find the actual study which sucks because I wish to read it.
Additonally the commentary IS political and biased, but I didn’t quote that bit and it doesn’t effect the actual outcome of the study.
And I have been whooshed, I suspect.
Which makes them all the more sinister. :dubious:
I think maybe you don’t know what cognitive dissonance is. It’s a feeling of discomfort that is purported to arise from holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously (or, according to Eliot Aronson, from holding ideas that contradict one’s self-image). If there were a neurological defect, there wouldn’t be any dissonance, but that’s really beside the point. The point, as best I can make it, is that most of what people like the OP characterize as “cognitive dissonance” is nothing of the kind: most people who hold “contradictory ideas” do not see any contradiction, either because they discard evidence to the contrary or they accept evidence that others do not. There is no dissonance in that, only deafness.
Isn’t Obama a Southpaw too?
Very interesting question, but probably not one we will have much of a neuroscientific handle on any time soon.
My personal guess would be something like the neurophysical mechanism of musical dissonance. Your basilar membrane is a long, coiled up sensor on which tiny hairs vibrate according to the frequency of the incoming sound. If two sounds an octave apart (one twice the frequency of the other, say) are heard, two sets of hairs at the same “hand of the clock” around the coil vibrate. This ‘consolidates’ the signal sent from the hairs to the auditory cortex.
If, however, the two frequencies are such that, say, some hairs at “five past the hour” around the coil vibrate while other hairs at “five to the hour” vibrate at the same time, such consolidation is confounded and the tones are heard as “dissonant”.
Whether the neurological basis of “facts which conflict with other facts” is similar is pure speculation on my part, but it’s a nice little pseudoscientific hypothesis to be going on with. 
I don’t believe this is true. Different parts of the cochlea detect different frequencies, but an octave is not one turn around the spiral.
Is that the function of harmony? Or am I confusing it? (Sorry I am not very musically educated)
Right
Right. It’s very interesting. This is the sort of stuff I’d like to study. I am very obsessed with the idea of cognitive dissonance and am starting to think that I should really throw myself into the study of it. I’ve been slacking on my cognitive studies that you got me started on.
Ah, you may be right - is it that one tone activates all the hairs on the line of the clock “hand”? That would explain pitch extrapolations where you ‘hear’ low frequencies even though they’re actually absent.
Ah well, bang goes the theory.
mswas, clearly you do need to study cognitive science from someone other than me!
LOL, I was studying it from Stephen Pinker and Daniel Dennett as per your recommendation. Also I’ve been trying to get a handle on neuroanatomy.
Chris Frith makes a good effort at tying the two together, as does Antonio Damasio. Jerry Fodor is also a good counterpoint to Pinker, while philosophers like David Chalmers are an entertaining counterpoint to Dennett.
For most of us, above the ears, behind the eyes, on top of the neck. YMMV.
OK, I’m going to throw out a type of experience that I have come to associate with “cognative dissonance”. Since I am an anecdote, take it for what it’s worth (which will be not much).
I have learned that, when I’m talking to someone about a belief I hold, especially a belief about myself, I sometimes experience an odd feeling. It’s a little like my reaction to a disharmonious chord. I suddenly become more aware of sounds, and something feels not quite right. I’ve found that if I spend some time later thinking about what I said that produced that feeling, I will discover some kind of contradiction between the stated belief and another belief I hold, or (more often) between the stated belief and some particular behavior of mine. I use this feeling to learn something about myself, to update my belief system, or to change something in a behavior that contradicts my values.
I have also observed contradictions in others between their stated beliefs and their behaviors. When there appears to be a significant contradiction, I’ve noticed that people sometimes seem to actually increase the frequency of the denied behaviors. It reminds me of a feedback loop.
As an example to illustrate: watching an alcoholic who believes he is not an alcoholic. He says, I’m not an alcoholic, then immediately drives to the liquor store. I’ve often seen people suddenly start drinking more when they start defending themselves as “not alcoholic”. I have even noticed similarities in physical behaviors when they talk about how not alcoholic they are. Their shoulders square, their mouths draw into a tight line, and their eyes look down at the floor. They seem to be projecting defiance while being unable to meet anyone’s eyes. I have noticed this same kind of physical behavior in a fundamentalist family member when she tells me that her financial problems are caused by Satan attacking her because she is such a good prayer warrior. Same posture, same face, same tendency to look down and to the right.
I don’t know what any of this means. Just noticed these things, and they make me think of physiological processes.
Since it seems to me that thoughts and beliefs come from the workings of my brain and nervous system, I think of this whole experience as something rooted in my biology. Although I grasp the belief that some people have of thoughts as somehow above and beyond biomechanics, it seems to me that thoughts and beliefs and feelings don’t exist separately from the firing of neurons.
I don’t get it. Sometimes your comments are too obtuse for me.
This presupposes a strict dichotomy between facts and values universally perceivable by all people facing the same configuration of incoming information. Most “factual” information, even simple sensory observation, comes in screaming with concepts and values. One person’s dissonance is another person’s fine distinction.
This. This.
Also, contradictions between stated beliefs with other stated beliefs or between beliefs and behaviors appear to me to be universally human, so it seems unlikely this would be caused by a “faulty wire.”
Neuroanatomy. That was a quick and dirty refresher course. 