Speaking of that item about this “not having limiting principles”, it looks to me like Trump demanding that congress should not have access to his tax records. Turns out that the courts already found that even the President is not above the law; and things like Red lining, that are already banned, need more than just laws to deal with the workarounds biased institutions are still using to limit opportunities for minorities.
The analysis – independently reviewed and confirmed by The Associated Press – showed black applicants were turned away at significantly higher rates than whites in 48 cities, Latinos in 25, Asians in nine and Native Americans in three. In Washington, D.C., the nation’s capital, Reveal found all four groups were significantly more likely to be denied a home loan than whites.
“It’s not acceptable from the standpoint of what we want as a nation: to make sure that everyone shares in economic prosperity,” said Thomas Curry, who served as America’s top bank regulator, the comptroller of the currency, from 2012 until he stepped down in May.
Yet Curry’s agency was part of the problem, deeming 99 percent of banks satisfactory or outstanding based on inspections administered under the Community Reinvestment Act, a 40-year-old law designed to reverse rampant redlining. And the Justice Department has sued only a handful of financial institutions for failing to lend to people of color in the decade since the housing bust. Curry argued that the law shares part of the blame; it needs to be updated and strengthened.
“The Community Reinvestment Act has aged a lot in 40 years,” he said.
I think crt narratives are being used to counter actual rational arguments, empirical evidence and being treated as having the same evidentiary weight as actual data by some crt folks.
LBGTQ advocacy, education, awareness, etc are not narratives in the crt sense.
That’s the thing about narratives>data. White supremacists can use it to come up with whatever bullshit conclusions they want to. They can engage in the same sort of pseudoscience as crt acolytes and you just end up with people believing what they want to believe because the disconnect from facts and data, the subordination of logic and reason means that your opinion is about as well supported as David Duke’s He just has to tell a story that supports his position.
Yes and the argument being made is that white folks would sell black folks to aliens for some goodies. That jews oppose this but only because they are afraid what would happen to them if white people didn’t have black people to kick around anymore.
Is that a limiting principle? You are just saying you will be satisfied when your conditions are met. I thought a limiting principle had to be able to be met without giving you everything you want.
The article is basically saying that credit scores are racist?
Cool. It seems to me that counter-storytelling serves to be an incredibly important way to change the dominant narrative structure. I think modern racial counter-storytelling is taking influence from LGBTQ+ counter-storytelling.
Seems like an interesting story to me. And I think white people would surely think about it in that hypothetical. And considering how Jewish people have been treated by whites, that’s not a bad speculation either. You’ve sold me on reading the story. Thanks.
Piffle, wanting all to have the same opportunities is something that should have very few limitations. And again, that is something that others with more experience and knowledge than me proposed before and very likely in the future. IOW, your insistence that it is just everything I want is ridiculous, it is not just me.
Again, you miss the point, if the system was fair before hand there would be no reason for credit scores to be used in discriminatory and predatory ways against minorities. Time and time again, changes in the life style for the better are easier to dismiss by institutions when minorities demand access to credit.
Although Wall Street is no longer pumping toxic mortgages into black and Latino neighborhoods, people and neighborhoods of color continue to reel from the foreclosure crisis, which many predict is far from over. Meanwhile, racially discriminatory and subprime auto lending are on the rise, payday lenders continue to extract billions of dollars from low-wage workers, and student loan debt has surpassed the trillion dollar mark. One in five Americans has unpaid medical debt, with more than half of all African-Americans and Latinos carrying medical debt on their credit cards. By definition, people who take payday loans and have uninsured medical debt are struggling, and are likely to miss payments. Missed payments translate into decreased credit scores.
This information – unpaid medical and credit card debt, student loans, and mortgages, as well as foreclosures, bankruptcies, debt collection judgments, wage garnishments – appears on people’s credit reports and lowers their credit scores. And the credit bureaus make humongous profits by selling this information about all of us.
In New York City, a coalition of labor, community and civil rights groups recently won the strongest ban on employment credit checks in the country. It’s a major economic justice victory, but we know it’s just a first step. We knocked down this discriminatory barrier because there is no demonstrated connection between a person’s credit history and his or her likely job performance or character. Credit checks can also block applicants with no or “thin” credit histories, including many students and immigrants. Rather, using credit information to make hiring decisions – or to rent apartments, set insurance terms, or extend credit – is a clear way to perpetuate inequality, poverty and segregation.
Credit reports and scores are mirrors of our manifestly two-tiered financial system, and more broadly our system of racial wealth inequality and unequal opportunity. In our culture, indebtedness – and certainly failure to pay one’s debts – is deeply entwined with concepts of morality. The insidious notion that our credit history speaks to our reliability as human beings is largely taken for granted.
Did jonathan swift build an entire social justice theory on the premise that the emglish would eat irish babies?
You’re not asking for the same opportunities, you are asking for the same results.
This is one of the primary differences between traditional liberal rights based analysis and crt.
How is this saying something other than credit scores are racist?
I mean the basic theory seems to be that racism causes financial disparity which leads to disparities in credit scores so lenders are being racist by relying on credit scores.
Nope, you are wrong on this one, as the cites showed, you only demonstrate ignorance on the issues.
How is that post you made there not just demanding that we should ignore the way the scores are misused and the efforts made already to minimize the bad effects?
What cites? You do understand that opinions aren’t cites, right?
Once again, all you are saying is that some racial groups might have lower credit scores than other racial groups and therefore credit scores are racist. Good luck with trying to make that sort of argument in the real world.
Ignoring the previous cite that reported that New York’s City Council voted overwhelmingly to outlaw the common practice of letting employers prejudge people based on their credit history— does not lead to your platitudes to be the truth.
NYC’s laws are not an argument for the merits of a position.
Let’s see if this example will help.
There is nothing intrinsically racist about government issued photo ID’s and it is perfectly appropriate to use them to determine whether someone should be allowed to drive on public roads. Despite the fact that blacks are less likely to have a driver’s license than whites, noone thinks that driver’s licenses are racist. However, if a political party knowing that blacks are far less likely to have a government issued photo ID passes a law that requires a government issued photo ID to exercise the right to vote, that might be racist (just as the use of credit history for employment decisions may be a disguise for racism). Using credit history for decision on extending credit is about as racist as using a driver’s license to determine who should be able to drive.
Missing the point, you were ignorant. People are listening.
“Given the increase in state and local laws passing credit check laws, as well as the EEOC’s stance on the use of credit checks—that credit checks create a disparate impact on certain minority groups—there appears to be a trend of all employers decreasing the number of credit checks that they conduct,” Devata said.
She explained that the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) does not bar employers from using credit reports when making employment decisions, but other applicable laws may.
Currently ten states (California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington), the District of Columbia, and the cities of Chicago, New York City and Philadelphia have passed laws restricting the use of credit reports used by employers for employment purposes, with several more jurisdictions poised to join the trend, she said.
It clarifies where the ignorance is. As the last cite showed, extending credit is not the reason why credit scores can be used in a racist way.
Note that the Reveal study (PDF) involved a logistic regression on the HMDA dataset and does not include credit score or credit history. So someone with a recent bankruptcy may very well look identical to someone with a pristine record of making on-time payments.
So the article doesn’t “[say] that credit scores are racist,” nor does it have fuck all to do with job applications.
There’s another word for a ‘narrative-based’ approach to changinhg public course. It’s called “propaganda”. Replace the word LGBTQ with ‘Aryan’, and the passage above could have been written by Josef Goebbels.
The problem with relying on narratives as ‘evidence’ is that narratives are constructed - in this case, by political partisans. Anyone can create a narrative through cherry-picking, choosing the characteristics that are important, etc. In fact, that’s one of the claims of CRT - that our history isn’t ‘fact’, but a narrative created by white people. They want to replace it with their own narrative.
This maks CRT the last thing from a social philosophy or especially anything remotely connected to science. What it is, is a field where a bunch of people try to create increasingly clever rationalizions for disrupting current hierarchies in favor of their own.
So you objected to MLK Jr’s Civil Rights movement? Because it was the narratives he and his allies demonstrated that ultimately convinced enough Americans to change at least some of these oppressive policies.
No, you’re clearly wrong on this point. The fact that some nyc politicians agree with you doesn’t make your claim any truer than if donald trump agreed with you.
Are you forgetting the genesis of this issue? You were claiming that housing was racist because credit scores were racist. There is nothing racist about using credit scores to make determinations about extending credit.
Unless your point is that racism may contribute to why people have bad credit scores. But that couldn’t be it because that would be an idiotic point to make in the context of that argument. Just as a reminder, this is the article we are talking about:
I’m not entirely sure why you can’t see there is a good propaganda and bad propaganda. Radio Free Europe, for example, obviously propaganda. The Declaration of Independence was propaganda. Those are both good propaganda.
Our society is built on narratives. Changing those assumptions requires other narratives to persuade people in other directions.
He also demonstrated very clear narratives (many of which were very brutally displayed on TV!). That was a huge part of the CR movement. Without them, it probably wouldn’t have been successful.
