Just to muddy these waters, I was just talking to my husband, who was raised Catholic, and he says what he was taught was that Jews had their own special Old Testament original covenant with God, so they had to follow those rules, and Christians had a different covenant and had to follow those rules, but they both were effectively united under the same God.
I’m not saying that’s definitive Catholic doctrine, but one man’s recollection of his own Catholic education.
Section 839 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in part:
The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”
In the book each of those in-passage quotes are given cites from other Church theology documents. Let’s not get too enthused it’s all in the context on that the whole thing is anyway itself part of the Christ plan that only the RCC got right on everything.
I don’t understand what’s so hard to get about antisemitism. People frequently hate The Other, especially if it’s visible and a minority, and for a lot of places where the diaspora settled, that was Jews. The usury and blood libel stuff came after, because of the Othering, but wasn’t the cause.
This is probably true, but I think it’s more about manipulation and power than human nature – maybe people are naturally suspicious of The Other, but even more than that, ambitious and amoral people use The Other as a scapegoat in order to manipulate others to gain power and wealth.
If this thread will let me post, which it may not (software glitch, refreshing the thread made it disappear momentarily but that may not last): Those who are supporting Israel because they think Israel’s existence is necessary for Revelations and/or the Second Coming to take place, but who expect all Jews to either convert immediately when that occurs or else be sent to their Hell, are not opposing anti-semitism. They are being anti-semitic, whatever public noises they make to the contrary, and however sincere their support of the state of Israel is.
It’s certainly possible to oppose the behavior of the state of Israel, and in some cases even the existence of the state, without being antisemitic. It’s also possible to support the state of Israel while being antisemitic. Humans are weird.
Am going to try to post this without having first caught up on the rest of the thread, because trying to do so may cause the software glitch to recur.
ETA, if it’s not too late to do so:
Joining in the chorus:
Because they’re not on our side. They’re only making a temporary alliance with one specific country, which doesn’t apply to Jews as individuals, and may at any moment stop being applied to Israel.
It’s also being used to attempt to encourage the state of Israel into behavior very likely to bring on an area-wide and possibly world-wide war. Which is not actually supportive of the state of Israel, either.
I understand that they are not on ‘your side’ in a pure sense. But, they are also protecting you and certainly don’t want to kill you. You can hate them, or disdain them, but why should you be terrified of them? At least until the ‘rapture’ I would think that you could be allies. Especially since the other side wants Jews wiped off the face of the Earth. And since there will be no rapture, people that are only your friend until the rapture will never pose a threat.
The fact is, almost all the antisemitism and violence against Jews we are seeing right now is coming from the left. At least in North America. I can’t speak to European countries.
They can be in favor of funding Israel and still want to attack Jews in the USA.
Um, no. The actual attacks we’ve seen in the last few years in the USA, as well as the clearly antisemitic threats, have been coming primarily from the right.
Pro-Palestinian demonstrations may be coming primarily from the left in the USA. But there are plenty of people out there who don’t like either of us.
And I’m going to add that I’ve met plenty of Christians, including Baptists, who thought Jews ought to be converted to Christianity. I’ve had a Baptist show up at my house on foot in a blizzard to attempt to do so.
There are so many different sects of Christianity and so many different preachers within them that assuming that the behavior of the particular people one knew as a child is standard practice is a risky business.
(I’ve also met plenty of Christians who didn’t appear to feel a need to convert anybody.)
Bless your heart.
Of course it is. Take Charlottesville, for instance. The marchers were Nazis, who, as we all know, are socialists.
This. The Apocalypolitical Wing would just be the ones who’d say “goody! the actual Battle of Armageddon is about to happen AT Har Meggido! Let’s just sit here and watch Jesus save them at the last minute!”
You cannot possibly believe this. Protests against Israel are coming from the left, actual attacks on temples and such are not. I mean, seriously, this is ridiculous.
I know you’re going to post another cite to Jewish students hiding in a library during a protest at Cooper Union – don’t bother.
Here’s a list: List of antisemitic incidents in the United States - Wikipedia. Pick out the ones you think were from the left. Was it the one saying that Hitler should have killed the Jews?
“The fact is, almost all the antisemitism and violence against Jews we are seeing right now is coming from the left. At least in North America. I can’t speak to European countries.”
This is not a true statement. But of course I consider the source. I started this thread because I thought some smart women walked into a damn trap set by a shitty person. That was my entire point and I regret that I used antisemitism in my title. I was copying what I saw online without giving it enough thought. I don’t believe these women are antisemitic, they just failed to see the fucking trap being set.
There are actual fucking nazis on the republican side. I know it, I see it, I hate it and I hate them and anyone who supports them.
The anti-Jewish attacks from the right come mostly from thugs on the fringes of society, with no real impact.
The attacks from the left are more dangerous—they come from respectable people with power to shape society…
Examples:
From the right: the tiki-torch carrying thugs in Charlottesville after Trump was elected. Or the lone madman who shot up the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh.
From the left: presidents of prestigious universities, speaking to Congress, proudly saying that they encourage the future leaders on their campuses who support murder of Jews.
As comedian Bill Maher said this week: It’s okay to march on campus and scream that you support killing Jews–but don’t you dare call them the wrong pronouns. After all, you don’t want to get expelled.
I have no strong opinion on much of this. I do not know if anti Jewish attacks from the left or right can have an impact on society. The antisemitic views of the Charlottesville Nazis may or may not be outside of the mainstream. But the rally itself is absolutely a manifestation of a huge movement that does have the power to shape society. They are foursquare behind Donald Trump, and are similar to the people who tried to violently overthrow the election.
Their antisemitism is just one way in which they are dangerous.
Uh, uh.
BTW, this idiotic attempt at making what many on the right are doing to be the same as what the college heads are doing grossly ignores (as you do) that the College heads regretted how their lines came out, and they will make steps to make sure speech is protected (doesn’t the neo fascist Musk and his supporters in congress like that?), but anything going away from that will not be protected.
“Let me be clear: Calls for violence or genocide against the Jewish community, or any religious or ethnic group are vile, they have no place at Harvard, and those who threaten our Jewish students will be held to account,” she said.
I will NOT wait to hear from you examples of the most prominent Republican leader advising “the nice people” from the fascist groups to cool it off.
I spoke too soon…
I did say ‘at this time’. In the past, antisemitism can be seen on the right or left, or both at various times. But where are the right-wing marches against Jews since Oct. 7? Where are the right wing people calling for genocide of the Jews?
Those protests on Campus are not coming from the right. Those pro-Hamas marches are not full of Republicans. Yesterday a man shot at a synogogue in Albany while yelling “Free Palestine!”. He was not a Trump supporter.
The Republicans have no equivalent of the ‘Squad’ in Congress - outright antisemites. Rashida Toaib and Ilhan Omar and Jamie Pressley and Cori Buish are despicable people. I just watched Rashida Tlaib refuse to condemn the rape of Jewish women.
The Democrats are worrying about losing the Jewish vote in the next election, and the big liberal colleges are losing Jewish donors at a rapid clip. is there anything equivalent happening on the right? Maybe there is, but I haven’t heard it.
I will point out that it was a Republican grilling those college Presidents. A ‘far right’ Republican at that. Where were the Democrats?
Here in Canada, It’s the right pushing Trudeau to support Israel, and he is taking heat from the left for supporting them at all. Our socialist city council is all in for Hamas, and we have regular large protests for Hamas now. I don’t think you’ll find a single UCP member at any of them.
The BDS movement is very much a left-wing movement, and it’s full of antisemites (and some people who aren’t).
Today I saw a tweet from a chaired UPenn professor of politicdal science saying, “Jews are very good at playing the victim card.”
Can anyone point to anything similar going on right now on the right?
Mind you, there are divisions in the right as well as the left in all this, but as pointed before, Biden and most Democrats are criticizing the few that are not condemning Hamas.
One has to notice that almost nothing has come from the right wing against the likes of Trump or Elon Musk.
I think you proved my point. None of that is anythint like what we’re seeing on the left. Where are the tiki marches for Hamas? Where are the right wing people shouting, “From the River to the Sea?” Where are the protests on right-wing campuses like Hillsdale?
And… Media Matters? Rolling Stone? Those are not reasonable cites. Media Matters is basically an arm of the Democratic party. Rolling Stone wouldn’t know the truth if it smacked them in the face.
This is a joke, right? Have you heard of Paul Gosar and MTG, both of whom have spoken, alongside Holocaust deniers and worse, at white nationalist conferences? And many more than those two have parroted talking points from the anti-semitic and racist “great replacement” conspiracy theory. Add on the anti-LGBTQ bigots like speaker Johnson (and many, many more), and the party’s House conference is essentially majority bigot.