Focus in terms of both criticism and support, right? Like, I don’t see many posters around here criticizing the Sudanese Armed Forces, but I also don’t see anyone around here supporting their actions, either. Nobody here has shit to say about Bashar al-Assad, positive or negative. If someone comes in talking about how wonderful the Mexican Federal Police are, maybe they’ll get some pushback, and that pushback won’t necessarily be motivated by racism, nor by the three Ds.
Sure. “Attention.”
Okay? Nobody in this thread has expressed any interest in pursuing it. The only thing I said was that Israel has probably done less harm than most other countries since most other countries have had lots more time and opportunity to do terrible things. I also said it’s not a useful statement even if it’s true. You’re the one beating this drum and I’m honestly not even sure what the point is.
Well, without Israel (and the pre-Israel Zionist settlements in the British Mandate), my entire family would have been dead, instead of only the vast majority of my family.
And since the creation of Israel, the Jewish people are once again a proud and free people rather than homeless wanderers who await the next pogrom. So that’s pretty nice as well.
Note that these are exactly the same reasons why I think the Palestinian people should have a state as well. Same with the Kurds, and the Uyghurs, and so on.
Frankly, yes. I don’t have a problem with the US supporting us for strategic reasons, but I am emphatically not a fan of so-called “Christian Zionism”; I find it disturbing. It’s like having an obsessed stalker.
Yeah, it’s awful. I have a former coworker who’s texted me a number of times since all this started to express her concern and support. She’s one of the sweetest old ladies I know, but the only reason she likes me as much as she does (and she genuinely, truly likes me) is because her religion has cultivated an affinity for Jewish people in her.
There are so many good reasons to like me, including “because he’s a human being.” I’m a fucking delight! But “because he’s Jewish” is not one of them.
Loving somebody because your church tells you to is no different than hating somebody because your church tells you to, and Christian churches, historically, spend way more time on the latter than the former when it comes to us. It’s a very easy switch to flip.
It was posted as something that “rings true”.
And I responded to show that’s just not true.
“Israeli Exceptionalism is bunk” would be the point.
And without Israel, many Palestinians wouldn’t be. I’ll call that one a wash, thanks.
Sure.
I can definitely agree that you responded.
With slightly different leadership at the head of the Palestinians, all those Jews and all of those Palestinians could both be alive, living in two states as outlined in the 1947 partition plan. So I think it’s pretty unfair to put that entirely on Israel.
That doesn’t mean Israel is perfect, it doesn’t mean Israel has always taken the steps that would lead towards peace in the meantime. But both in 1948 and at a number of other times since, peace was 100% on the table.
The larger point did, not every individual claim. We’ve been talking about one line from the article for how many posts now?
Anyways, most of the people criticizing Israel - present company excluded- aren’t living in these angelic post-colonial nations you refer to, which may indeed be much better behaved than Israel. They live in (and benefit from the colonialist legacy of) the United States, or Great Britain, or France, or Germany, or Belgium, or…
Let he who lives in Micronesia cast the first stone.
(Actually, I think they like us…)
Folks, if you’re going back into the whole Israel is perfectly clean, Israel is the most evil modern regime, could you take it to the other Pit thread, or create a new one? Because I’m NOT participating in all those other threads for a reason.
Unless it’s comments coming from one or more of the college heads.
I’m wondering what the situation would be like if those settlers who decided to build in the Palestine Territories were subject to the rule of the Palestine Territories’ governments instead of being treated as an extension of Israel’s territory.
The People’s Republic of China contributes troops to UN peacekeeping forces. I don’t think it’s all that big of a secret that their government isn’t all that stellar an outfit when it comes to record of how they treat people.
And I can agree that you did not have a rebuttal.
I’m not talking about 1948. I’m talking about the dead Palestinians in the last decade.
I didn’t do that. But Israel is not blameless, either.
If the claims that support it are bullshit, how does the larger point stand?
That’s my larger point.
China isn’t currently a big fan, either…they’re hardly a small country.
Of course, not one to sling stones, either…
I’d say take it up with the person cross-posting the “Israel is so super-special” glurge to multiple threads.
Well, they likely wouldn’t have been allowed to steal land in the first place, under any other government, would they, now?
So - does some measurable good.
No kidding.
If that’s your takeaway, you are missing the forest for the trees. The article’s point is the exact opposite - that Israel is not all that special and that the world gives certain the Arab-Israeli conflict a disproportionate amount of attention. That’s the point I posted the article to echo, not individual lines that might portray Israeli exceptionalism.
Just a completely wild ass guess but I’m betting that disproportionate amount of attention has to do with the price of gas and home heating oil.
That’s on the writer, as they’re the one writing the “Israel is so good at being good” counterfactuals.
My read was he was saying the conflict isn’t all that special. Not that Israel wasn’t.
I know why that is, and it isn’t mostly because of antisemitism. It’s a combo of the location of the conflict, and one side being perceived as White fighting a side perceived as Brown. But that last isn’t antisemitism, it’s just plain old racist error.
The area of Israel has always gotten more attention than it merits by size alone, just because of location - that goes back to the Bronze Age. Hell, further, there’s a reason Israel is a hotspot for Neanderthal studies.
Super late in this conversation, but I do fail to understand what’s so hard to get about antisemitism. It’s such a weird form of racism. I have Jewish friends with names like Ma’or and Ofir, but Ma’'or is as white as white can be and Ofir is a typical dark skinned Mediterranean guy. I have Jewish friends named Nicole and Regan.
I have a Jewish friend with a large nose, as typically picked up on by propaganda, but my ex wife has a large nose and she’s very much European Christian.
Like how the fuck do antisemites even know who to hate? Anyone in the street could be Jewish, but aside from those who exhibit dress codes or openly display their faith, I would not know who to hate.
The othering of different racial groups (while morally appalling) is at least based in some form of observable differences. The Jewish diaspora means that there is no way to tell a Jewish person is Jewish unless they tell you.
Humans are so fucking weird.
That’s because it isn’t really a simple form of racism. It’s a bigger bigotry than just that.
How do homophobes know who is gay? How did McCarthy know who was a Red? How do Orangemen know who’s a Catholic?
Some Jews are undoubtedly visually obvious by dress, by grooming, and by situation, others aren’t, but there are more ways of telling who is Jewish or not than just superficial phenotypes. That’s a notoriously poor way of telling group identity. Same as gays, or Communists, or Irish Catholics.
Naah. It can be, and sometimes, it makes absolutely no sense in that regard. Look at Ireland, or Rwanda, or the Balkans.
And in some ways, the Other not being obvious is the point. Because how can you properly foment fear and distrust if it was always obvious? No, it’s good to have a mix of the obvious, and the hidden. That’s the way to keep a good bigotry going, to justify witchhunts, to keep people on their toes.
True, keep warning that “they” are insidiously “infiltrating” us and we have to be at the ready to catch them and then teach them a lesson about staying in their place.
That’s why one of the most common forms of anti-semitic state prejudice involved forcing Jews to identify themselves. I’m sure you’re aware of the Nazis and the yellow stars but that is actually a practice with a very long history; it actually started out in the Umayyad Caliphate over a thousand years ago. In Europe they sometimes borrowed the practice and other times made Jews wear some form of traditional clothing, or a specific color.
A different means of accomplishing the same thing was to force all Jewish people to use very clearly Hebrew names. That’s something else the Russians borrowed, but again, it goes back centuries, to the Russian Empire and other places. If “Avraham” is forbidden from going by “Abraham” or “Abe”, you won’t mistake him for anything but a Jew.
To an anti-semite, that makes Jews even worse. And is probably intentional on our part through our evil Jewish conspiracy.
In my humble opinion, fuck, yes, THANK YOU, for your infiltration. I have so many friends in the music festival and movie industry in South Africa who are Jewish.
(An aside… I once got mercilessly mocked by a friend for making a challah loaf on passover, not being religious at all it never ocurrered to me. My friend is a non-observant Jew but he was not going to let that between his criticism of me)