What is going on with this house I am trying to buy?

In My Humble Opinion
1

AAAARGGGHHHH
I found the house. I had it inspected. I have come to a basic agreement with the seller about the bits he needs to make right. But now my lender is telling me that the VA appraiser is saying we will have to rip out the second kitchen before the sale if we want a VA loan. WTF? I want that second kitchen. I want a craft room where I have a sink and stove to make messes on without affecting when dinner is ready. I certainly don’t want the seller to rip out the sink and stove and store then in the garage until the sell is final WHICH IS WHAT THE REALTOR IS PRESSURING ME TO DO.

Why? This makes no sense to me. There is nothing I have been able to find in VA rules or Cook County codes that says a second kitchen is inherently bad.

At first they (the realtor and the lender) were laying this all on the VA and then they started to say any lender is going to be wary of the mother-in-law suite. She went on and on about illegally renting it out and too many cars parked out front. Hey, there will be nobody there but my family. I have no intention of renting out the upstairs. There will only be 2 drivers there for the next 13 years or so I am not planning on more than 2 cars, so what is the big deal? And why do they care if I have a second kitchen?

I talked to another lender today who has another loan that is looking mighty good right now and he is saying that they would have no problem with this mother-in-law suite, as long as the house is in good shape. It is a common feature in a house this age and style. So when I tell my realtor that if they don’t get this VA loan working for us pronto, I have another loan that is looking sweet and won’t insist on ripping out my favorite feature of the property, she digests a bit and calls me back and says that maybe they can get the appraiser to back off and maybe this can happen by tomorrow and not the end of the week like I was told before.

What gives? Why would anyone want us to make the seller tear apart a perfectly good kitchen? I don’t understand. What am I missing?

2

The VA’s kind of hard to deal with, but at least your VA appraiser seems to be telling you everything at once rather than something like, “Okay, the front steps are fixed. Now, about that roof…” and after the roof there will be something else, and on and on.

You would have to ask, but I think there’s a VA restriction on whether you can rent out some or all of a home with the loan. And of course, if there’s a second kitchen, it really does look like you’re gonna be renting it out. Actually I don’t remember if that’s a VA or a HUD restriction, or both, or neither. I do know the VA has certain requirements that can really get burdensome if you’re selling (or buying) an older home.

But I’m not buying that any lender would be wary of a MIL suite. Lots of people rent those out and very few people have paid off houses, ergo they have lenders who don’t mind. Your realtor should be working on these things, that’s why they make the big bucks.

3

I checked the VA regs and they don’t forbid the purchase of a two unit dwelling by a veteran. This is not a true two unit dwelling though. There are no separate utility meters and the entrance is through the main entrance of the house. It is a mother-in-law suite.

I don’t plan to rent out the upstairs. There are going to be five of us soon and we will need the whole house. We live in a house now in Cook county. I looked up the definitions and we are a family. I just don’t get it.

4

In California, if things have been put in without a permit (bathroom, kitchen, electrical), they may have to be removed in order to bring the house up to code. Perhaps this was an illegal remodel and the terms of the VA loan require that the house be up to code. YMMV.

5

It doesn’t appear to be a remodel. It looks nearly original. The stove is older than I but has not been used enough to discolor the text of the warning message printed on the bottom of the oven. It certainly has not been rented to anyone who bakes. The house changed hands two years ago and he did get a loan for it then. I would think that difficult if it was an illegal remodel. The realtor kept focusing on how undesirable it would be to the neighbors if we rented it out which is driving me nuts because we are not going to rent it out and even if we had those plans, I don’t see how stowing the stove and the sink in the garage would help us buy the place.

6

I would avoid the VA loan if you can. One of our friends couldn’t buy a house (via with a VA loan) because there was a crack in the driveway. You might try USAA, they are much easier to work with.

7

I have an alternative loan should this one not go through, but the VA loan is a nice deal for us so I am trying it first. What gets me is the realtor started talking about how we would have to dismantle the second kitchen to get any loan. I called my other lender and he said that was crazy talk.

8

My husband bought our home with a VA loan and this place was 100 years of trainwreck. I don’t get your realtor’s beef at all. Unless there’s some local regulation about a second kitchen, I don’t know why she’d even bring it up.

9

Real estate laws regarding second kitchens can be very, very strange. In my business only two family houses can have a “second kitchen,” but one family houses can have a “summer kitchen” in the basement. But basement rentals are illegal.

10

Sorry it is being difficult. As I said before, I really know nothing about VA loans other than several anecdotal situations in which they seemed to be considerably more hassle than conventional.
This too shall pass.

11

Why haven’t you spoken with a VA loan officer directly?

12

Right now the only thing keeping me sane is the fact that I have lots of options due to good credit and cash on hand.

One of the things they said is that if it has never been rented out, then maybe they could grandfather it in somehow. But I don’t see how they can tell if it has ever been rented out illegally, because unless they were caught, it would not be on record.

13

I get that it makes no sense, and that it’s not covered by any of their restrictions. And I know that it seems really stupid, 'cause, y’know - it is!

Having said all of that, the removal of a sink and stove to the garage until after the sale, when they can be quite handily reinstalled, really doesn’t seem so awful.

I mean it certainly wouldn’t stand in the way of me getting the house I wanted. They aren’t asking you to replumb anything after all. It won’t take but a half an hour to do or undo.

The stupidity of it is probably more annoying by half than the actually doing of it.

Think hard about letting this annoyance keep you from the house you want. Not everything in life makes sense, especially jumping through foolish hoops!

Good luck to you!

14

I have not heard of such a beast. There is the appraiser and the lender. The lender is a regular lender and somehow works with the VA and the appraiser. I don’t know who is having the issue with the kitchen. I am especially annoyed at the repeated lectures about how illegal rentals are bad. I wonder if they see KellyM as an illegal renter? She is part of the family, not only in our eyes, but under the County regulations. And if that is the problem, why don’t they say something specific?

15

Methinks you have never carried an old fashioned gas stove down a narrow stair with a twist near the bottom. It is more than a half hour work as is the repainting and other repairs that would be needed afterward.

16

You say it would help your situation if it had never been rented out, because then they could grandfather it in somehow. Well, if there are no records indicating that it had ever been rented out, why don’t you take the position that obviously it never was? There is no proof that it ever was, right? So – it wasn’t.

When I had a home with an apartment in the basement, I had the opposite problem: I wanted to rent it out, but it was in a residential zone where rentals were not allowed. So I had to argue that it should be grandfathered in as a separate apartment based on the fact that it had been used that way in the past. My “proof” was the fact that the apartment had a different street address from the home, complete with mailbox, and a separate phone line. Also by going back 20 years in the reverse directories in the library, I could show that a separate family or person had lived there in the past.

In your case, if there isn’t any of that sort of evidence tending to suggest a separate residence – then I’d take the position that it wasn’t ever a separate residence and there’s no proof it was. Grandfather it in.

17

BTW, I would not be surprised if your unique living situation coupled with the apparent ability to use the MIL as a separate residence is confusing them or giving them pause. Extra person + extra living space, complete with kitchen = suspicion you are living in the house with hub and renting the MIL to KM.

18

Actually I have moved many old gas stoves, up and down, stairs with twists and turns.

(I was a landlord for a long time :wink: )

Never once, did it take longer than 30 mins, and I’ve never touched up paint on a scratched wall, that took any longer than 30 mins.

However, many, many times, I bitched moaned and complained about all manner of stupid and annoying hoops I was forced to jump through for no good reason. Stupidity annoys the most, I find.

What I learned was that, almost always, it was time better spent just doing the hoop jumping than all the time I spent complaining and coming up with reasons why it was soo wrong that I was being forced to do some stupid thing. It was wrong, I was righteously upset, as you are.

But in the end I learned it was a lot less stressful to accept early in the process there will be hoop jumping and then get about doing it. Y’know instead of wasting a lot of precious energy railing against the stupidity of it only to have to comply in the end.

It was a hard learned lesson for me, but I got it in the end. Oh, and it surely made me more productive and a much less stressed person. YMMV.

Personally, I wouldn’t let the house I want get away from me over something that’s hardly insurmountable, though unquestioningly stupid. You can froth, you can rail, but it is unlikely to get you any results and certainly not going to make this any easier for you. In the end do you want the house or not? Is it worth it if it’s the only way to get this house? Only you can decide, of course.

Good luck to you whatever you decide and let us know how it works out, cause we’re all hoping for a good outcome. :stuck_out_tongue:

19

Just a wild idea, but would they allow you to classify it as a wet bar? I don’t know the specifics, but I know of people who’ve put in “wet bars”, and had them pass the required inspections, even though that was not their intended use.

20

I spoke to my boss about this :smiley:

Two scenarios:

The zoning allows for a 2nd kitchen/in-law suite, and your appraiser is being overzealous because it’s a VA loan.

The zoning does NOT allow for this (no matter HOW long it’s been in place and what (or not) it’s been used for).

What does the zoning on your appraisal say? It is not uncommon for the “cap & remove” requirment to be made. And probably not uncommon for that stove & connection to be reinstated after you’ve closed.

VCNJ~