I just realized that fictional dwarves mining for jewels and gold aren’t limited to Tolkien’s work; they’re also at it in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, or at least in the old Disney film version. What’s the deal? Were the dwarves miners in the original fairy tale? If not, did Tolkien borrow the idea from Disney?
The original concept of dwarves as miners comes from Norse mythology, which in turn, I believe, borrowed heavily from Tolkien.
I think you mean that Disney borrowed from Tolkien who borrowed from Norse Mythology, rather than Norse mythology borrowing from Tolkien.
No – Brutus probably meant it the way he wrote it. After all, according to this thread, Tolkien travelled through time and ripped off Harry Potter, so naturally the Norse would have done the same to Tolkien.
There seems to be a lot of this going around lately.
Perhaps it’s a new strain of humor flu?
[sub]C’mon, people, everyone borrowed heavily from Tolkien. I read all about it in the Weekly Midnight Star.[/sub]
As for “why are dwarfs/dwarves always portrayed as underground miners?”, well:
Tunnelling out a mine takes a lot of time and effort. And the more material you have to remove to make the tunnel, the more time and effort it’s going to take. If your miners are only 4 feet tall, you won’t have to make the tunners as large!
Um… actually, it goes clear back to Scandinavian myth.
In Norse mythology, the dwarves forged Thor’s hammer, Mjolnir, as well as all the magic cutlery used by the Gods and the giants. They were such excellent jewelers, they actually created a head of hair of spun gold that actually took root on Thor’s wife’s head and grew!
In Germanic myth, a dwarf whose name I forget raised the hero Siegfried for the sole purpose of slaying a dragon with a magic sword that the dwarf forged for Siegfried. The Germans also had a kind of goblin/dwarf critter called a coblynau, who favored mines and mining.
Doubtless all these sources just stole it all from Tolkien.
:smack: of course! See, I was thinking with my sensibility hat. Clearly, I should have known better.
Thanks, Wang-Ka. Somehow I had a feeling it was from an ancient myth, if Tolkien used it. Now I’m starting to get interested in Norse mythology.
I always thought those things were called kobolds.
I already asked this question about a month ago.. Got some fairly decent answers too.
And thanks to you, too, Euty. Yes, your thread was very informative and I should have searched before posting. I am of Norwegian ancestry, so I’m a bit peeved at myself for being so ignorant of this. Time to go to the ol’ library and get a tome of Scandinavian mythology.
“Kobold” is, I think, an anglicization of “coblynau”. If you look up both critters, you get pretty similar descriptions.
Since I am German, I can answer you that yes, there is a “kobold” in German mythology.
It’s not a miner itself but a small being that plays tricks on miners.
Apparently the name of the mineral Cobalt derives from the term…
Never heard of “coblynau”, though. Sounds rather Welsh or something.
In Wagner’s “Siegfried” Act 1, Scene 2, Wotan is asked by Mime , “Who dwells in the depths of the Earth?”
He answers, “the dwarves.”
I could only find libretti in German, sorry.
The opera “Das Rheingold” expounds on this topic much more.
pugluvr : For Norse mythology, I recommend reading “Myths of the Norsemen” by Roger Lancelyn Green. It’s reasonably well-written, widely available, and has all the best myths and legends and several more.
My only pet peeve is the translitteration of the names, but hey.
I’ve read several other great books of myths and legends, some with the lesser-known heroic stories, but the ones I read in English I can’t remember the names of and the ones in Danish or Swedish I just don’t think were translated.
The sagas themselves are great fun too.
For a fantastic novel on the Vikings, which has no mythology in it except as part of the culture shown, read “The Long Ships” by Frans G. Bengtsson. I don’t know how good the English translation is, but the Swedish version is a classic and is basically a household name. The book is very interesting, exciting, and hilarious.
OK, end of shameless plugs. Enjoy your reading!
pugluvr, this may help answer your question:
http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/theories/lossiel.htm
Hey, Norse mythology makes GREAT reading!
And I could be wrong about the Coblynau; maybe they’re the Welsh dwarves, not the German ones. I know the Welsh had their own dwarves, but I thought they were called “Tommyknockers”, which is not a Welsh word. I was pretty sure the Germans had their own mine gnomes, though…
Wang-Ka, the Tommyknockers and the Coblynau are both Welsh in origin, but I believe they’re a little different.
The Tommyknockers seem to be the dwarves/spirits that knock on the walls of the mine just before a collapse.
The Coblynau are generally good, knocking on the walls to signify heavy ore content.
The Coblynau:
http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/folklore/cobl_cwn.html
Ah! Sort-of the mining equivalent of a gremlin, then?