What is John Rambo, anyway? (Your worst spoilers!)

I’ve recently seen the Rambo trilogy (2nd, 3rd, 1st…don’t ask). I’m well aware that any character involved in three movies spread out over about six years is going to be a bit complicated (particularly since in the original story he doesn’t even have any future after First Blood). That said, I find him, if not perplexing, at least hard to pin down.

Okay, let’s start with the facts:

  • Embittered Vietnam vet. One of the returning vets who was actually spat on and harbors a lot of resentment over this. Unalbe to hold a job, get a home, etc. makes him even more resentful.

  • Prone to violence, but not berserk. Very calculated, controlled anger, in fact; knows just how much force to use to maim an enemy but not kill him (worked to perfection in First Blood); not prone to screaming rages unless really, really pushed.

  • Simple sense of justice and righteousness. He fights for freedom and against tyrrany, and he never gives an inch.

  • Doesn’t take crap from anybody if he can help it. He’ll endure pain if he’s helpless, but he’s always looking for a way out (and usually finds it).

  • Ambivalent toward America: Loves it deep down, but still too bitter to return. He simply follows his heart (which is probably also why he never married).

  • Very strong and durable, but within the limits of what is possible for a human being. He feels pain, he feels thirst, he bruises, he bleeds (one excellent and definitely not for the squeamish scene in Rambo 3 as to how he deals with the latter problem). In a bare-knuckle fight between him and Indiana Jones, he’d lose after about, oh, 20 minutes. And no, I don’t know how he did that vertical leap in First Blood Part 2…an underground spring or sumpthin’.

  • Tremendous fighting ability, but again, within human limits. Two soldiers, piece of cake. Six soldiers, a little more of a challenge. 200 soldiers? Pray for backup. What he’s really good at is using terrain and cover to divide up a large force and take it out as piecemeal as possible (fantastic example of this in First Blood).

  • Aptitude with a huge variety of weapons (including plain 'ol sticks).

In First Blood, the remarkable thing is that he takes great care to minimize the carnage. His beef is with that fat pig of a sherriff, not the good people of Hope, and besides, you can’t frighten the dead. This would indicate to me that for all his beliefs and sense of justice, he understands the need for restraint, and that multiple life sentences aren’t going to do him any good. At this point, he’s fighitng a purely personal war and relents only when he has no way out.

First Bood Part 2 presents him with a dilemma from the get-go. Why bother fighting for his freedom only to run into more closed-minded twits like Will Teasle? His tone changes quickly when he finds out POWs are at stake, however. Note that for nearly the entire rocky mission, even after he escapes captivity, he takes great trouble to avoid beeing seen and kills his foes one at a time with precise, quite shots. He’s a lot more Solid Snake than Bill Rizer. Only after he’s fortunate enough to take over a Soviet helicopter that he goes into full-bore blast-'em-to-pieces mode. And yes, he does save all the POWs.

Rambo 3 is a bit unusual because it takes Rambo to a place that’s never been our enemy. In fact, it’s precisely because it’s the enemy of our enemy that we’re there. In any case, there needs to be more explanation than usual as to what Rambo is doing there in the first place. Initially, he’s there for a purely personal reason, to save Colonel Trautman. But after seeing the brutality of the Soviet occupiers, he knows what more must be done. (No doubt his captivity in FBP2 made taking the war to him an even easier decision.)

One his most interesting or disturbing beliefes, depending on where you’re coming from, is that he thinks we should’ve won in Vietnam. That means that he supported that repulsive, greety, tyrranical right-wing dictator of South Vietnam (or at least thought that if the South Vietnamese didn’t like him, they should get rid of him themselves). So he truly was ferociously political, and in particular, anti-Communist…if he were just a good soldier, he wouldn’t have notice a dime’s worth of difference between the hammer and sickle and President Diem.

Something changed along the way, however. He supported Afghanistan in the fight for freedom, and now (I haven’t seen the fourth movie yet, just read descriptions) he believes in fighting oppression wherever it exists. I’d like to think that it wass his experience fighting for the Mujahadeen that finally convinced him that justice is color blind. His years with peaceful Buddhists might also have mellowed his outlook.

Whatever the truth is, I have to say that he’s a mighty interesting character. Especially for a blood-and-guts killing machine. :slight_smile: What say you?

P.S.: We’re all smart people, so we know 1. the difference between a citizen army fighting for freedom and a bunch of murderous nuts flying planes into buildings, 2. that Al Quaea is a Saudi organization, and targeting Afghanistan was nothing more than cheap scapegoating, 3. that if we really hated Osama Bin Laden, we would’ve made more of an effort to catch him, 4. it’s silly to judge a 1988 movie with 20/20 retrospect, 5. it’s craven to judge anything with 20/20 retrospect, 6. it’s ludicrous, if not downright insane, to underplay just how huge an enemy the USSR was and how bitter and heated the Cold War was, and 7. in any case, it’s outrageous to judge an entire nation by the actions of a handful of ruling party jerks? Okay, good.

Did you see the fourth movie?

I think of him in that one as a cynical, just, embittered Vietnam vet.

A lot was taken out of the book to make the movie, and there was a lot that was changed to make a kinder, gentler killing machine out of John Rambo. But here is the bio as I remember it from the two books.

John Rambo enlisted in the United States Army as a virgin at 21 years old out of Bowie, AZ. He had never cared much about the US or the war until he thought he was going to be drafted. He enlisted because he believed that draftees got shitty jobs, a poor excuse for training, and disproportionately killed WRT enlistees. Rambo also wanted the hardest most elite training the Army could offer because he wanted to learn how to survive in combat so he could come home. (I also think he wanted to come home to do something about that virginity problem, but that is just my opinion.) So he attends Special Forces training to learn, not to kill, but to survive. He completes the training and is promoted to Sergeant Rambo.

At this time, SGT Rambo is deployed to Viet Nam, kills and saves many Soldiers, and is put in for the Purple Heart. He is captured by the NVA, and escapes.

This is where First Blood starts.

Sheriff Teasle has some problems going on in his personal life, and he doesn’t need Rambo to become one in his professional life, so he pushes Rambo out of town. Rambo comes back three times, so Teasle has him arrested and jailed, of course Rambo escapes, as we all know. Here is the difference between the book and the movie, Rambo sees a Bronze Star for valor in Teasle’s office as he is being booked, assesses the Sheriff’s age and figured Teasle must have been a war hero in Korea as Rambo was in Viet Nam, and there should be mutual respect there. When John Rambo is trapped and unarmed by one of Teasle’s men, Rambo is forced to kill the deputy in order to survive. Killing deputies to get out of danger is now acceptable to Rambo.

At this point the war is on. Rambo is trying to defeat the former war hero, and Teasle thinks Rambo is only some crazy serial killer. The war is fought to a draw, but the basis of the book and Rambo’s actions is the difference between the Korean War and the Viet Nam war. Also, Rambo wanted to see if he could defeat a Soldier as well trained as he was.

FBII was a feel-good about America movie, and John Rambo agreed to go to Viet Nam because he knew what it was like to be a prisoner in Viet Nam. He had to go through hell while he was incarcerated there and did not feel anyone else should be. He ate food covered in maggots, was dipped into the sewage pit, and beaten regularly. His one regret when he escaped was that he did not kill the camp commander. Imagine his surprise when he gets back to Viet Nam and the camp commander is the same guy that ran the camp when Rambo was in there. At first, Rambo sticks to the mission as he is trained to do, he brings back proof that there are POW’s in Viet Nam. When he is abandoned by the American extraction team, and imprisoned again, he sees again, he must go to war on his own. It isn’t American pride, it is that he wants to kill the camp commander, escape, and free all the other Americans that have been in hell for so long. That is why he goes on the murderous rage. That is why he helped the men escape. That speech at the end was just something thrown on to make it seem like the whole thing had a reason. It didn’t, Rambo had no plans to go back to the States.

Asking me to explain Rambo III would be like asking me to explain Smokey and the Bandit III

SSG Schwartz

What you call hell, he calls home. That’s all you need to know.

I can’t find my fuggin legs!

…like how fighting imperialist, genocidal fascists means you support Stalin and Mao?

For that matter, a good soldier might just resent, for all he and his comrades trained for and went through, what they were able to and what they had to become, losing the war he was sent seemingly more because of political and leadership failings on his own side (“somebody wouldn’t let us win!”) than anything else, and then being treated like an outcast and a monster because he managed to come back alive.

Nothing much to add except to say “Wooo!” to the Contra reference.

I did not read the book but I heard that

At the end of the book Rambo is killed by Trautman

Is that true? I think there may have been two books, the original pre-movie novel and a movie novelization.

A little nitpick here. If you’re referring to when Rambo escapes the jail near the start, he kills the deputy in order to avoid a haircut.

In the original novel, at least.

John Rambo: He’s your worst nightmare.

Mahaloth - Not yet. From what I’ve heard, it’s needlessly gruesome and the star of the show doesn’t even get much screen time. I’ll rent it pretty much the same reason as the last Indiana Jones movie, 'cause I don’t want to miss out. Probably later this month (I’m trying to get caught up on a lot of cinema right now).

SSG Schwartz - Thanks for the book synopsis (some of the events actually make more sense if you go by the book, especially Rambo getting stopped three times instead of just once). What I’m trying to get at, however, is how his emotions, motivations, and thought processes work out over the movies. In the book he dies at the end, so that’s pretty much all she wrote.

And R3 is easy. Initially goes in intending to get his friend and get out, hooks up with local help, witnesses a massacre, and learns that you don’t always get to pick your battles.

GargoyleWB - Well, that’s a nice tagline, but I just can’t see him as a Frank Castle-esque butcher addicted to war (he lived very peacefully for a long time between the events of FBP2 and R3). Macho attitude, nees to justify his existence? Don’t see where that would come from.

Ranchoth - I can understand why he has a deep personal hatred of the Soviet Union. What doesn’t make sense is why he gives a rotten piece of maggoty meat about “winning”. That meant that he still believed in a righteous purpose behind the Vietnam War, something worth fighting and killing and putting his butt on the line for, when he more than anyone should’ve realized what a colossal piece of chest-thumping BS the whole stupid exercise was. I’d sooner expect him to ask “Do we get to bomb them back to the Stone Age this time?” or “Does America get to be a hero again?”, or simply “So it’s not about the military-industrial complex for once?”

Justin Bailey - Since you mentioned it, some trivia. The first game was based on two highly successful action movies, FBP2 and Predator. Lance Bean (his original incarnation, not the M.Bison-esque supervillain in Shattered Soldier) is based on John Rambo, and Bill Rizer is based on Major Dutch Schaefer. The lush jungle settings and alien foes follow both movies. Of course, the big difference is that while Lance attacks the enemy bases head-on, Rambo is either hiding or running for most of his mission (though he’s still a very effective killer).

There seem to be quite a few video games that were inspired by or at least might have been inspired by First Blood Part 2 (Contra, Super Contra, Rush 'n Attack, Operation Wolf, Metal Gear). Not many of them showcase his stealth or his aptitude with a wide variety of weapons. Metal Gear came the closest.

Beggin’ your pardon, but your personal views on that war in particular and how “righteous” a cause must be to participate in it are not so widely spread and ironclad as to serve as a unquestioned baseline to gauge the rest of the world by.

And anyway, heck, as Rambo himself says in First Blood:

The man loves his country, he went to war for his country when called. Johnny Rambo turned himself into RAMBO for his country, and his brothers in arms. To win—and it got taken away from him. He didn’t get to end the war—literally, or personally. He was held back, and thrown away.

Guts him with his own straight razor, he does.

I don’t know how this ended up in the pit but here’s some grist for the mill…

I only watched the first movie because David Caruso was in it and I loved him. I still do, really, but he’s become such an ass.

:rolleyes:

I guess we aren’t ALL as smart as you’d hoped.

:rolleyes:

There was a Rambo III? I can’t believe I missed that. And I assume the Rambo IV was made as well? (I’ll check imdb after posting this, I just wanted to share my true ignorance.)

Man, I loved First Blood. I still stop to watch a few minutes when I see it on cable.

I’ve got to stay in more.

Yes.

As I recall, Trautman sneaks up behind a badly wounded Rambo and shoots him in the head with a shotgun. And you can get the gist at First Blood (novel) - Wikipedia. I think Trautman feels responsible for what Rambo has become and essentially decides Rambo has to be “put down”.

Yes. Confusingly, the title is just Rambo. Seriously.

I always refer to it as Rambo: First Blood Part II Part II.

I very much enjoyed and appreciated 1. 2 and 3 were just over the top studio profit generators with little story, plot or characterization.

4, however, really impressed me in much the same way and to an even greater extent than 1.

Unfortunately, the editing is for crap. Watch the deleted scenes and you can actually understand *why *Rambo agrees to the job of escorting unarmed missionaries. The best character development was left on the cutting room floor to save five freaking minutes of run time.

4 is also the best depiction of the carnage of combat I’ve seen in a movie. I’d even put it slightly ahead of Saving Private Ryan. If you’re squeamish or put off by hyper-realistic gore, this is not the movie for you.

My recollection is slightly different.

They are face to face at the end. Rambo shoots at Teasle and he returns fire, hitting Rambo in the top of the head. The Wikipedia entry seems to bear this out.