What is "Original Sin"?

A couple of points that need clarification here:

*Satan is not, nor ever has been, an “independent agent.” Such a thing does not actually exist if God is completely sovereign.

  • Who can “deceive” a God who is omniscient? and who even implied that?

Now as to Job, God was well pleased with his righteousness and proclaimed it to Satan, knowing how he - “the accuser of the brethren” - would respond. Moreover, God also knew that Job would be able to withstand a “trial by fire.” initiated by Satan. even if it came down to what Satan called “skin for skin.”

Once again, God won, Satan lost.

I can’t speak for a complete consensus, but I don’t recall every hearing anything about Satan in five years of Hebrew School and lots of sermons. I went to a Conservative shul, so I can’t speak for the Orthodox, but I’m pretty sure that you won’t hear about him in Reform temples either.

I also believe that Job is understood to be a story about faith in God, and not history. Notice how it, unlike any other book, is set in no particular place in no particular time.
And how anyone can read Job and see God and Satan as archenemies in it is beyond me. As has been mentioned, Satan is not doing anything without God’s permission.

And, to make a common point, while Job came out of this in good shape, his original family didn’t do so well. But women and children were more or less equivalent to the livestock he also lost.

BTW Conservian - Jewish Messiah? No, Jewish person who claimed to be the Messiah (maybe) but who flunked the prophecies and wound up not as king but as corpse. Those who lived near the events seemed to be notably unimpressed.

Funny how virtually no Jews see it that way, isn’t it?

And what did Jesus’ apostles write in the Old Testament?

You do realize that Muhammad was directed by angel under God’s orders, to write the Koran, and there is just as much truth in that as any book including the Bible, all was written by other humans. that is proven so it is a matter of choice who one wants to believe.

Since God knows all things ahead of time( according to believers of the Bible) he knew humans would sin, he let a Monster(Satan) trick Adam and Eve, so it doesn’t make sense to me that a Loving , just, all knowing Being would then punish the Humans he created. Why he seems to bargain with Satan is also something to consider.

Also, do you have anything to say about the link I provided that shows why Jews don’t see Jesus as a messiah?

“HaSatan” in biblical Hebrew means “the adversary”. This use of the definite article in the Masoretic text always means a specific supernatural being (such as in the passage from Job), but “satan” without the article is ambiguous. There are cases where the non-articled form obviously refers to a regular (as opposed to a supernatural) “adversary”–e.g. in 1 Kings 11 where various people are described as “adversaries” of Israel. But there are cases where “satan” without the article seems to mean the prince of darkness–e.g. in 1 Chronicles 21 where “satan” stood up against Israel.

The Greek LXX translated these differently; it uses the word o diabolos when the context (with or without the original article) seemed to mean Satan with a capital S, but often leaves a transliterated “satan” or another Greek equivalent for “adversary” when referring to common opponents.

I should also note that Christians interpret several figures mentioned in the OT–Beelzebub, Lucifer, etc.–as other names for this same o diabolos aka Satan.

It’s even funnier that no one bothered to ask any of the roughly 350,000 Messianic Christian Jews out there how they see it.

Uh, I have a guess.

  1. That’s sure a long term for “Christians”
  2. I’d like to see a neutral cite for that number.

This is a typo on my part: “and what those same Apostles wrote in the NT or the OT.”

Should have read: and what those same Apostles wrote in the NT or on the OT.

The Apostles quoted often from the OT prophets, as their writings were often of a prophetic nature.

Not really. Their ‘unbelief’ is no greater or lesser, or any more special than that of the gentiles. The rejection of Christ as Messiah by the Jewish elites - high priests & politically connected - was prophesied back in the OT, just as the salvation of many gentiles was also prophesied.

Christian Jews would suffice as well.

It’s funny you concentrate on that prophecy…and ignore all the other ones that Jesus didn’t fulfill.

No, it won’t. They are Christians.

The first unethical act of humankind was to exist. Previous to that we weren’t doing anything. After that we weren’t doing anything that could not concievably be considered sinful.

Fiction doesn’t much hold my interest.

Yep. Christians… that happen to be Jewish.
Born again Jews are proud of their Faith and heritage and proclaim it through their ministries in Christ (Jews for Jesus) so as to get the attention of their own Jewish brothers & sisters.

So man kinda willed himself into existence:confused: