What is racially hateful about "pressing oil" hair product? What's it used for?

Great Debates
61

[QUOTE=NinetyWt]
Some of us were there, monstro. Although I can’t put myself in your shoes totally because I’m not black, I certainly witnessed it. Not to be too antagonistic to Nzinga, but I think perhaps young folks don’t really understand what it was like, not so very long ago. (Geez, I sound like Granny!)

Paying attention to history is a tricky thing. I liken it to looking in the rear view mirror as you drive down the street. It’s helpful to glance back every now and then. (Don’t stare into it, though, or you’ll have a collision!) We don’t need to deny that there was such a past, or that “black = ugly” was never pushed on us for decades.

That’s all I’m saying.
[/QUOTE]

So this is what it feels like to have a meltdown on the SDMB. I have seen them. I have laughed at them. But now, I feel one coming on, and it aint so funny.

I am not denying that there was such a past that racist whites taught that black = ugly. I am not denying that. Not. Denying it.

Also, I’m afraid that if you think my position comes from my youth, then I am embarrassed. I am actually 33 and nearly 34. It doesn’t come off as very mature when one can’t discuss a topic without getting emotional, I guess.

62

Hang on, Nzinga, please don’t melt down.

It looks like my problem here is that I’m archaic, and I apologize if I have gotten on your last nerve. I certainly didn’t mean to. I’m just trying to understand, and maybe this is one of those times when I’m not going to get it.

Ok?

63

Hey, you were the one who brought in mixed/biracial bias. I was insulted by that, as I’m sure ywtf was. It sounds wayyyy to much like “you just aren’t black , so you don’t REALLY know”. Maybe you didn’t mean that at all, but that’s what it sounded like. Honestly, I don’t know how else we were supposed to take that.

When you enter a thread as the self-professed “myth-buster”, the implication is that people who disagree with you are promulgating myths and that you and you alone know what the truth is. So be prepared when people get defensive. My recommendation–which you are perfectly free to ignore, of course–is to avoid calling yourself The Expert about what’s true and not true for black people. Occassionally I’ll take up the septor of “spokesperson”, but then step back when I realize I’m just a singular data point. I’d never decry something as a myth unless I had something–anything–to show the audience as supporting evidence.

And like you with the face, I don’t care about white people and what they think about this topic. If black people have some hang-up that needs to be dealt with, then it needs to be discussed, regardless who’s in earshot. Sounds too much like hiding dirty laundry when we do otherwise.

But really, I’m not mad or anything. I’m just another person with a keyboard here, trying to keep up with the conversation.

64

[QUOTE=NinetyWt]
Hang on, Nzinga, please don’t melt down.

It looks like my problem here is that I’m archaic, and I apologize if I have gotten on your last nerve. I certainly didn’t mean to. I’m just trying to understand, and maybe this is one of those times when I’m not going to get it.

Ok?
[/QUOTE]

If you don’t get it, that’s my fault. It’s my job to communicate my own points and defend my own positions. You are not on my nerve. I’m on my own damn nerves!

65

[QUOTE=monstro]
Hey, you were the one who brought in mixed/biracial bias. I was insulted by that, as I’m sure ywtf was. It sounds wayyyy to much like “you just aren’t black , so you don’t REALLY know”. Maybe you didn’t mean that at all, but that’s what it sounded like. Honestly, I don’t know how else we were supposed to take that.

When you enter a thread as the self-professed “myth-buster”, the implication is that people who disagree with you are promulgating myths and that you and you alone know what the truth is. So be prepared when people get defensive. My recommendation–which you are perfectly free to ignore, of course–is to avoid calling yourself The Expert about what’s true and not true for black people. Occassionally I’ll take up the septor of “spokesperson”, but then step back when I realize I’m just a singular data point. I’d never decry something as a myth unless I had something–anything–to show the audience as supporting evidence.

And like you with the face, I don’t care about white people and what they think about this topic. If black people have some hang-up that needs to be dealt with, then it needs to be discussed, regardless who’s in earshot. Sounds too much like hiding dirty laundry when we do otherwise.

But really, I’m not mad or anything. I’m just another person with a keyboard here, trying to keep up with the conversation.
[/QUOTE]

This isn’t the first time I have been accused of trying to hide dirty laundry. I find that a ridiculous concept, and the black folks in my house had a hearty laugh at Bill Cosby when he pulled it. There is no laundry dirtier than the crimes of racists on this nation, so if anyone has to feel the need to watch their laundry, it aint black folks.

If I am speaking about black (not mixed) hair, then why wouldn’t I draw a distinction between what those with black hair think about our own hair, and what those with mixed hair think about black hair? It is nothing personal at all.

I am not going to going to stop proclaiming myself as a mythbuster. Just because the lies that I find important to shed the truth on are about subjective topics that can’t be ‘cited’, doesn’t mean that it isn’t my job to shout out that black is beautiful and we know that. Because if I shut my mouth about that, and my sisters and brothers shut their mouths about that, then eventually, we will have a message that 'they don’t even respect and love their ownselves. They know they are inferior, so they don’t deserve equality" floated right into our children’s ears.

I won’t let that happen without a fight, even if it does bother people to hear me say I am The Black Myth Busta.

I will do this, though. And you can mark my words. I will stay out of Great Debates with my myth bustin’ from this day forward. Because it isn’t fair to enter the forum of ‘cite’ requests, without being able to provide cites on a subjective topic. In the future, I will limit my so-called myth bustin’ to IMHO or the Pit. Fair enough?

66

[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated]
So this is what it feels like to have a meltdown on the SDMB. I have seen them. I have laughed at them. But now, I feel one coming on, and it aint so funny.

[/quote]

I think the fact that you are so close to a meltdown proves that this subject of hair-straightening is not as apolitical and fashion-oriented as we might hope it to be. Our hair does have implications beyond being a head accessory. If it didn’t, you wouldn’t be talking about propaganda and myths and proving stuff to white people and emotional appeals about children’s self-esteem. You would simply disagree me as if we were talking about who’s the better rapper, Lauryn Hill or Missy Elliot.

This will be my last post in this thread because I still don’t see why anything I’ve said is worth fighting over.

67

[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated]
This isn’t the first time I have been accused of trying to hide dirty laundry. I find that a ridiculous concept, and the black folks in my house had a hearty laugh at Bill Cosby when he pulled it. There is no laundry dirtier than the crimes of racists on this nation, so if anyone has to feel the need to watch their laundry, it aint black folks.

If I am speaking about black (not mixed) hair, then why wouldn’t I draw a distinction between what those with black hair think about our own hair, and what those with mixed hair think about black hair? It is nothing personal at all.
[/quote]

Because most black people in the US are mixed-up mutts. My parents are black, as are all my grandparents. As far as I know, all my great-grandparents are black. So to think that my experience–or ywtf’s experience–is different from the majority of black people’s experience doesn’t make any sense to me, from a personal stand-point. I also think it confuses the subject and belies intuition to think that mixed people have more hang-ups with their hair than non-mixed people. Different issues, I can believe them having. But more?

Well, if ever I have children, I will teach them that people can believe two conflicting things simulatenously. It’s called cognitive dissonance and it happens all the damn time. And I will also teach them that people can believe some wacked-out shit and not even know it, because not all thinking happens on the surface. I will teach them that we have not left all the ugliness of the history behind us, that some times it rears its head up when you least expect it, and it’s best to stomp the hell out of it rather than pretend it doesn’t exist.

I mean, how do you plan to have a discussion about racism at all with your children? How is telling a child that some white people hate them because they’re black any less psychically damaging than telling them that racism has given some black people a complex about their looks? My mother raised me to recognize the existence of black people who suffer from internalized oppression, and even though I sometimes joke around about it, it’s true. There are some black people who are still wearing the yoke of oppression around their necks. Pointing out these people to a child doesn’t hurt them. It makes them wiser and maybe more compassionate.

Well, it only bothers me when I think you’re wrong, and then I’m like, “Why can’t Nzinga just express her opinion instead of insinuating we’ve all been brainwashed?”

I don’t want you to stay out of GD. It’s just I wish you would at least try to find something that corrobates your experiences that you could share. The thing is, I want to be persuaded to your position, or at least be convinced that I could be wrong. This doesn’t have to be a purely emotional discussion.

But if you want to go to IMHO, that’s fine too. We’ve had arguments there, too. :wink:

68

[QUOTE=you with the face]
I think the fact that you are so close to a meltdown proves that this subject of hair-straightening is not as apolitical and fashion-oriented as we might hope it to be. Our hair does have implications beyond being a head accessory. If it didn’t, you wouldn’t be talking about propaganda and myths and proving stuff to white people and emotional appeals about children’s self-esteem. You would simply disagree me as if we were talking about who’s the better rapper, Lauryn Hill or Missy Elliot.

[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I have gotten emotional over that exact topic, about those exact performers, on this very board. Link.