I’d like to be able to engage in an informed debate about gun control. But it occurred to me that I don’t know all the facts regarding how easy or difficult it is to buy firearms in this country. So I’d like to learn a few things so I have at least a little factual knowledge before I open my mouth. A few questions:
What does it take to obtain a Firearm Owners’ Identification Card? Can these be revoked due to the actions of the holder?
Is a FOID necessary in order to purchase a gun? What sort of documentation (registration, licensing, etc.) is required once the gun is purchased?
Any other information about the nuts & bolts and legalities of owning a gun would be welcome too.
Please note: I don’t want this thread to become yet another gun control debate. That’s for elsewhere. I’m just looking for facts here. Thanks!
[quote]
The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
[ul][li]Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.[/li][li]Fugitives from justice.[/li][li]Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.[/li][li]Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.[/li][li]Illegal aliens.[/li][li]Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.[/li][li]Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.[/li][li]Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.[/li][li]Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.[/li][li]Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an [*]intimate partner.[/li][li]Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.[/li][li]Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.[/ul][/li][/quote]
FOID is required in some states. Michigan is not one. basically this is what it is like in Michigan (apart from the Federal laws):
Buying from an FFL-holding dealer:
Long guns require the dealer and buyer to (truthfully) fill out BATFE form 4473, and the dealer has to call in the buyer’s information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS) which will respond one of three ways “Proceed,” “Deny,” or “Delay.” Buyer must be a minimum of 18 years old.
Handguns require the dealer and buyer to (truthfully) fill out BATFE form 4473, and the dealer has to call in the buyer’s information to the federal National Instant Check System (NICS) which will respond one of three ways “Proceed,” “Deny,” or “Delay.” Buyer then has 10 days to submit a “pistol purchase record” to his/her local police department or county sheriff, who will then send a copy to the Michigan State Police. Buyer must be a minimum of 21 years old.
Pellet (air/CO2) pistols are considered handguns, and subject to the rules above.
Pellet (air/CO2) rifles and BB guns are not considered firearms.
Buying from a private seller:
Long guns require the buyer be at least 18 years old and not otherwise be legally prohibited from owning a firearm, but no further restrictions.
Handguns and pellet pistols require the buyer be at least 19 years old. The buyer first has to go to his/her local police department and apply for a “license to purchase” a handgun. The police dept. will hold that information and perform a background check, and the buyer must wait overnight (or over a weekend) for approval. Once approved the seller and buyer fill out a transfer record (in triplicate.) Seller keeps a copy, Buyer keeps one, and the third is turned into the police department, who then checks the pistol’s serial # and issues a green card with the weapon’s information. (They call it a “safety inspection” but it’s pretty much only so they can verify the serial # is there or doesn’t look altered.)
so we’re pretty lax on long guns, a bit tighter on handguns, and require registration of handguns.
also I believe Michigan does not allow private transfers of Title II weapons (machine guns, automatic weapons, suppressors, etc.)
Guns made before a certain year (I think 1900) are much easier to get. They are treated more like an antique. To sell those old guns you don’t need to have a license to sell guns , at least in some states.
Pertaining to what Bijou Drains mentions, if you watch Pawn Stars you’ll notice they don’t buy any guns that are not considered antiques/collectibles because they don’t have a firearms license.
Black powder guns that do not fire fixed ammunition are not considered ‘firearms’ and can be ordered through the mail. I have a bunch of cap-and-ball Colt replicas by Uberti. Here in the State of Washington though, they are considered ‘firearms’ and are sold under the same regulations as modern firearms.
In Kansas, we don’t have an FOID or any comparable document (the closest would be a concealed-carry permit, but those aren’t required even for concealed-carry anymore, and never were required just for buying/owning.)
There are no registration or licensing requirements once the gun is purchased.
If you are buying from a federally-licensed dealer, you have to go through the federal instant background check, as noted above. For private sales, you pay your money and you get your gun.
You are not supposed to have a gun with a barrel less than 12 inches if you are under 18, and you are not supposed to have any kind of gun if you have a felony conviction within a certain time period (depending on what the felony was and whether a gun was involved, can be 5 years to lifetime). [Note that the federal law that says felons can’t have guns specifically excludes those felons who have been pardoned or who have had their civil rights restored, and in Kansas we restore civil rights automatically when you get off parole.]
I think you do need a Federal “Curio and Relic” firearms license, which is MUCH cheaper and easier to get than a standard FFL. However, it’s limited to a specific list of guns deemed to be considered curios and relics by the Federal government. Where this gets weird is that a lot of immediately pre-WWII and old Communist-era firearms are classified in this category, despite being perfectly functional and useful. Stuff like Makarov and CZ-82 pistols fall into the C&R category.
Black powder/muzzleloaders aren’t governed by the same laws as cartridge firearms, so you can go online and buy a Civil War-era pistol and have it shipped straight to your house. Same with rifled muzzleloading hunting rifles.
No, any gun that is at least 50 years old qualifies as a curio/relic. The ATF also has a list of guns that are less than 50 years old that are considered curios/relics by virtue of their novelty or historic associations. (For example, Springfield Armory’s M1 Garand .30 semiautomatic rifle serial # 250280 is on the curio/relic list, but other serial numbers of that same model are not, so it’s likely this specific gun was owned by someone famous or otherwise has something special about it.)
That’s still different than antique guns (pre-1898), which require no license to sell under federal law.
For C&R: the “relic” cutoff is 50 years, otherwise some newer ones are designated “curios,” and requires a Federal Firearms License (type 03). With it, you can ship firearms to your door, requiring an adult signature in person. Long guns can come through regular mail, handguns must overnight via UPS or FedEx, not USPS (although I think that’s a policy and not a legal requirement). You don’t have a C&R = you need to use a FFL, 03 or 01 (C&R or regular, although C&R holders are discouraged from buying for others as it’s a license for collectors not people operating as businesses).
The CZ-82 is a curio, as it was first made in 1982, hence the name. It’s not a terribly unusual pistol (all I can think of it that it is one of the largest available in blowback) so I’m not sure why it’s on there but I’m happy that it is- a very solid pistol. Not all Makarovs are C&R: it depends on the country of origin I believe. Russian military, East German are C&R it looks like. Bulgarian, commercial Russian, Norinco (China), etc. are not C&R.
An antique firearm is the 100+ year cutoff and requires no license. They can ship directly to you without a C&R.
Then there are some specific exceptions, like ordering from the CMP. This requires a lot more hoops to jump through though.
You don’t get a Dishonorable Discharge for swearing at your drill sergeant. It’s normally for acts that would be considered felonies in the civilian system, so a Duck Dinner is widely treated as the equivalent of a felony conviction.
Another thing that may come up in your debate, just so that you are aware of what it is, is that when guns are restricted, there are two different restriction types, called “shall issue” and “may issue”.
“Shall issue” means that if you meet the requirements set forth in that state’s laws, they will issue you a license.
“May issue” means that you still have to meet whatever requirements are set forth in that state’s laws, but the state still gets decide whether or not to issue you a license even if you meet all of the criteria. These states generally require that not only must you meet the basic criteria (not a felon, never had a drug conviction, not mentally ill, etc) but also that you have “good cause” for requiring the gun, like you work as a security guard for armored cars that routinely carry thousands of dollars in cash and are likely to get robbed at gunpoint.
The Makarov and CZ-82 are considered C&R due to the countries that made them no longer existing. For the Mak, this applies to only Soviet and East German military production. Antiques do not require a C&R.
