What is the Christian view of Natives? Are they all Damned?

cosmosdan,

Thank you again for your reply. I don’t think I have much more to contribute to the thread; again, my reason for posting is that I think “the Christian view of Natives” is not monolithic, and I want to suggest a set of perspectives other than those arising out of American Evangelicalism. Beyond that, I don’t want to drift toward debate.

I think I see your point. We’re using the word “revelation” in somewhat different ways, I think. Both are plausible, but it would be easy to talk past each other.

I would understand “revelation” to be, not an interior process of growth, but an act of self-revealing in which God sets aside the shadows of hiddenness and discloses something of God’s heart insofar as it bears upon us and our world. That is, not something in me but something from God.
One of the things of importance to me in what is revealed in Jesus is that I’d be bold enough to say: our current world is moved by compassion. Not ours, which is pretty thin; but God’s compassion. God will make it so. We could try to stand in the way; which would be foolhardy. We are also invited to become partners in the healing of the world. But it still depends on God.
To quote Luther again, regarding the prayer “thy kingdom come”: “God’s kingdom comes indeed without our prayer. But we ask in this prayer that it may come also to us.”

I emphasize the point because, for me, a critical question is whether I dare trust God. The answer is not obvious. Much of the available evidence could easily be understood to indicate that god (if any) is a homicidal maniac. In Jesus, I see otherwise. I’d be hesitant to argue that “natives” always need ethical instruction from us. (Plenty of logs in our own eyes…) If, however, the world is being transformed in Jesus, and that transformation is moved by omnipotent love, that’s worth knowing. For us, and for “natives.”

Actual attempts to address the Q from the main source-

Abraham to God in Genesis 18
23. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
24. Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25. That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Zechariah in Ch 9
11. As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
12. Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

Jesus in Matthew 25
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into aionian fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46. And these shall go away into aionian punishment: but the righteous into life aionian.
Jesus in John 5
21. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23. That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment; but is passed from death unto life.
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27. And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.

Paul in Romans 2
12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

and in Romans 5
12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13. (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

and in I Corinthians 15
20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Peter in I Peter 3
18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

and in I Peter 4
6. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Finally, John in The Revelation
20: 11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
21: 1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
22: 11. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
And the Conclusion of All This…

Everyone will be judged compassionately and fairly by God/Jesus. Some will be eternally happy, some will not- the latter may be reconciled or totally die out or maybe just linger unhappily forever, but whatever becomes of them will be loving & fair.

When I die, I don’t want to be in the hands of a disincarnate Jehovah, Allah, Brahma, or the Tao- I wanna be in the hands of Jesus.

And if dying in the hands of Jesus is the best place to be, maybe living in the hands of Jesus is also the best place to be. And everyone should hear that Word and get that opportunity in this life.

Thus endeth the lesson- thanks be to God.
*I’m under no illusion that thus also endeth the thread :smiley: *

I think our approach to revelation is different. I think our semantics vary, but it’s not that different. The the inner process of growth and the self revealing of God’s heart are one and the same process. It is something* from* God that is *in *you, and in us all. One of the things that disturbs me about the language used is the way language and choice of termnology is used to seperate us from God and each other. That isn’t what Jesus taught.

It’s in no way a reduction of God’s glory {because nothing can be} to recognize ourselves as his children and his partners. If “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” is to happen then someone has to do it.

We’ll be off on a tangent here but I wonder, since Jesus says the Kingdom of heaven is within us, how can “thy kingdom come” unless it does come to us, and through us?