In the thread about Fetus’ and their Soul, there was mention about Hell, and how one get’s there. Same old hub-bub really, if you do not take Jesus Christ as your saviour, you are pretty much damned. I know, I know this is a gross generalization. If someone could explain to me the Christian view of natives and the like who never know a Christian God: Specifically, do they all simply go to thell because they are savages, unknowing of God? Or is there some celestial caveat that allows natives who do not know the Christian God into heaven?
Being Unitarian I have my own set of beliefs, they do not include notions of a souless fetus being condemned, as I do not believe in the idea of Original Sin.
I’d like to discuss if anyone is up for it.
This is something I’ve pondered from a young age. If one has to know Jesus to enter heaven, what hope did the American Indians have? If they weren’t damned out of hand, wasn’t it easier to have never heard of Jesus? They never had to worry about adultery or false idols or honoring the Sabbath; they couldn’t be held accountable having never heard “The Word.” I don’t guess an all powerful God has to be fair. There’s always the “works in mysterious ways” disclaimer.
I had a fundamentalist college roommate (not sure of the sect other than that it was something Protestant) who said that if someone had no way to possibly be exposed to Jesus before they died, they go to heaven automatically (since her belief was predicated on the idea that all people who accept Jesus go to heaven regardless of sin). This would also include fetuses, extremely retarded people, people born before Jesus, and people raised in cultural isolation. Not sure how mainstream this view is, though, since I’ve never run into someone who believes something similar.
This what I was taught in my fundy-ish church when I was a kid.
They were always sending missionaries too, I thought it would have better to just let them go to heaven instead of introducing the possibility of Hell by giving them a chance to hear about Christianity and reject it.
“They were always sending missionaries too, I thought it would have better to just let them go to heaven instead of introducing the possibility of Hell by giving them a chance to hear about Christianity and reject it.”
YES! I love it! If we could rid the world of Christianity, everyone would go to heaven.
Jesus transcended all time and space between His death and resurrection. From the perspective of eternity, all have already known Him. It is only from our perspective that the past is gone and the future is yet to unfold.
Hmm, I’m no bible scholar, but I seem to remember Jesus saying something like, “When I was naked, you clothed me, when I was hungry, you fed me, when I was in prison, you visited me.” “Master, when did we do these things?” “When you did it to the least of my brethren, you also did it to me”.
Well, for one, this not a “Christian” belief. It applies only to a small number of Protestant sects. Certanly the Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, etc. don’t agree with this.
Natives? Man, that sounds like something out of the 30s… How about “anyone not exposed to Christianity during his lifetime”? Are we to assume that the Chinese were all “natives” until Marco Polo arrived? Sorry about that, it’s one of my pet peeves.
This is an interesting question, along with the fetus question, from the standpoint of etablished churches. I was taught, in Catholic schools during the 60s, that no one could go to heaven who wasn’t baptized. But, if you were “good”, you wouldn’t go to hell, just limbo. IIRC, limbo wasn’t all that enticing.
It just occured to me that we have a broad cross section of occupation represented on this MB, but no priest from the major religions AFAIK. I sure wouldn’t hurt to have a Jesuit or two to call upon in times like this.
Well, didn’t Dante populate the 1st level of Hell with the “virtuous pagans?” Not a place of punishment, but still sad, since they can never know God since they never knew Christ. I’m not really sure when this ceased to be Catholic dogma…Vatican 2? Council of Trent? Anybody?
It was never Catholic Dogma. Dante was a ficiton writer and nothing more. He did pick up on a few folk beliefs which got mixed with Catholicism, but it was never a teaching of the Church itself.
Not that quite a few Christians, Catholic or otherwise, didn’t consider themselves better than others, though. That’s been going on forever and probably will go on for some time. Everyone secretly believes in their heart of hearts that they are perfect and everyone else is more or less perfect depending on how close they are to you, IMHO.
Or better yet, recruit a special force of top-secret monks to destroy all evidence of Christianity, erase the memories of those exposed to it, and finally off themselves once the destruction is complete. Then, all those ignorant people won’t have to work at all for their salvation, it will be assured them, based on a technicality.
This always brings up the issue of the incompetent missionary. If a missionary who does his job poorly is the only one to visit a large group of “natives,” he will be resposible for sending more people to hell than to heaven.
The apostle Paul alludes to this question in the book of Romans.
Although there is no singular “Christian belief” about what happens to people who never heard about Jesus, most Christians would agree that:
Some information about God and who He is can be deduced from nature (per Paul’s quote above).
God is just - on judgement day, no one will be able to say that they got an unfair deal.
This all boils down to the commonly accepted belief that people will be judged based on their response in faith to what God has revealed to them during their life.
I should emphasize that this is “commonly accepted” and not “universally accepted.” I’ve certainly heard my share of preacher bemoan all the ‘lost people’ in remote jungle villages who are doomed to eternity in hell because we’re not giving enough financial support to our missionaries. But my experience is that this belief is a minority of Christians, and not the official teaching of any significant denomination that I am aware of.
I’m going to have to ask Paul for a cite for this. God’s never shown me anything. :dubious:
Jesus answered this question himself. When he was asked what a person had to do to gain eternal life, he said to love God and love your neighbor. “Do this and you shall live,” said the J man.
As for those who don’t believe in (and thus cannot “love” God), Jesus said that whatever you do the least among you, you do to God. So if you love your neighbor, you love God (even if you don’t recognize him). I would suggest, therefore, that Christians can cite no less an authority than Jesus as basically saying all you have to do is love your neighbor.
