That’s probably good, yes. Don’t forget the parable of the Good Samaritan, either.
You can whine in Hell. :eek:
Just kidding. 
Wait. I just thought of something. Maybe that is Hell - the appeals process of the damned! Endless court appearances, injuctions, motions, briefs, etc. Sounds like eternal suffering to me. :shudder:
No, I’m not kidding.
Hey, maybe this has already happened, and the religions we know about like Christianity are just smoke screens or things that naturally arose to take the place of the real true religion that was erased!
Kafka was. He thought it was a funny metaphor for his personal demons. I don’t think he actually thought bureaucracy was so bad, though popular discourse uses the term “Kafkaesque” to describe bureaucratic hell.
Anyway, as to OP, I’m sure there couldn’t be just one view on the part of Christians. I go down the street and I pass so many Protestant churches: Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Chist Scientist, Seventh Day Adventist And they’re numbered, so there’s even a "Sixth Church of Seventh Day Adventists. (What happened to the first five?) …I assume there must be a difference, otherwise, why do they exist? I’ve never bothered to ask. (I’ve been Catholic, and that just makes so many things easier–yeah, I know it’s a cop out.)
And what do you mean by “Native”? I didn’t think that was a category that was still used today since that kind of Colonialism is more or less over. Did you mean specifically “Native Americans”? I know there still are a lot of missionaries for Christian churches (especially with the Mormons, who hold themsleves to be Christians), but they seem to be pretty sure that once they arrive, the same rules apply. And, moreover, I think they have been pretty successful in some places, like Tonga, for instance. I’ve never met a person from Tonga who wasn’t Morman, though that’s purely anecdotal.
But first you have to watch a thousand lawyer commercials.
Never found Jesus? Going to Hell? You need someone who will stand up for your rights and make sure you get everything thats coming to you.
Dewy, Cheatum, and Howe will intervene on your behalf.
Dial 1-800- fuc-hades
But seriously folks.
I’ve talked to people who believe that everybody gets to hear about Jesus. God just makes sure of it. As unrealistic as that is they still believe it. They have no real concept of how remote and uneducated certain areas are. What irks me is the idea that if someone mentions Jesus being the son of God and you don’t embrace it then thats all it takes to be damned for all eternity.
That seems to me to make Jesus an incredible egomaniac.
“Worship Me or else!”
I said “Worship MEEEEE!”
Zim has gone back in time? ::Shudder::
The church really fell on their face fulfilling this one. As a member of the First Central Church of the Religious Fascist, I can say that most bashing in this thread will be justified. I spent time on an Indian Reservation three years ago. We went on a “Mission” trip to help reconstruct and organize a school for the local children. In no time flat, the “leaders” of the group were busy telling people what to do and creating strife among the brethren. Myself and two “unbelievers” (they thought it would be a fun trip) had taken time to get to know the locals, while the rest of our group was busy working on fashion design, (remember, appearance is everything)
Gosh, before the week was up, my two friends and I were invited to “smoke” and “sweat” with the tribal elders, (That is quite the honor). The kids took us to their swimming holes and we almost did not want to leave. Incidentally, we completely neglected our duties to the Mission group, and were subsequently burned at the stake when we arrived home. Any experience you come away from with a good memory is worth keeping.
Are they saved? I have no idea. I do know that the church today is refusing to read the Bible at their pulpit. (I asked the preacher on Sunday how he could talk for 30 minutes and not read from his Bible?) There you have it, the next question…
“If I claim Jesus as Lord, and do not read my Bible, am I saved?”
Am I stuck in a day that repeats over and over? This isn’t Ground Hog day, is it? 
It is better to whine in Hell than to surf in Heaven.
Or something like that…
I think it counts for a whole lot, it is the basic teaching of Jesus, along with, love one another, don’t condemn, forgive others, it is God’s unconditional love for his children. Those who never saw Jesus will not go to hell. However, all people have been exposed to His teachings through other teachers. God does not eternally punish any of His children. The punishment we have received and will receive in the future comes from us.
My belief is that the spirit of Christ creates a “program” that makes it easier to get to heaven. It’s a shortcut, a substitute for the heavy meditation and aescetic lifestyle that would otherwise be required. I don’t think it’s a question of sympathizing with people who cannot be blamed for not having been exposed to Jesus. Either you’ve dialed the combination neccessary to make the connection with God or you haven’t. There have always been other ways without having to go through Jesus, but they are more difficult and time-consuming. You might say that Christ is a new-fangled peice of spiritual technology.
1.There is no religion where meditation or an ascetic lifestyle is supposed to get you into Heaven. In Eastern traditions like Buddhism, neither meditation nor asceticism are supposed to bring enlightenment.
- If God isn’t willing to give the “phone number” to everybody (and I don’t mean just sending missionaries to harass and proselytize people in Peru, I’m talking about giving everybody some PROOF) then it’s a worthless and amoral form of salvation. IMO, If being a good person isn’t good enough, then God isn’t good enough.
The problem is, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before, is what is good? Or more precisely, what is good enough? Christians would say that sure, if you live your life in a morally spotless way, then you don’t need Jesus. But even by our own self-judgement, most people would acknowledge that they aren’t perfect. So how good do you have to be saved?
I define “good” very simply. Whatever I think is good is good. That’s how everybody else does it too. Even if they think they’re submitting to another moral authority, they firt have to decide that it is good to do so.
So the argument that puny humans can’t understand God doesn’t work for me. If I can’t trust my own feelings about what is good and what is not then I can’t trust anything.
It all boils down to feelings, doesn’t it?
I’ve been under the impression that meditation and/or an ascetic lifestyle isn’t supposed to get you into Heaven; it’s supposed to help get you out of Hell.
Careful, Lib. You just stepped out of the perspective of eternity, putting something in the past. Maybe we better leave the perspective of eternity to God. Or are you claiming to be as God again?
Okay, but even if we grant that each person has their own reliable personal standard of good, most people don’t even live up to their own personal standards. For myself, there have been times when I have been rude to my wife or slacked at work. I believe it is good to always treat my wife with love and respect, and to always give my employer my full effort. But I don’t always do what I believe to be good. So, how close would I have to come to my own definition of ‘good’ in order to consider myself good?
And one can’t even say, “it’s okay if you mess up sometimes, as long as you always try to be good,” because I can’t even honestly say that I always try. So where does that leave me?
Why do you have to be perfect? Do you demand that your wife be perfect? If you have kids is your love and forgiveness conditional upon their perfection? Does it even matter if they’re always repentant?
I would expect God to be at least as forgiving of me as I am of my kids. I think perfection is an unreasonable and uncompassionate requirement.