What is the current state of the Hell's Angels?

Factual Questions
21

Remember, the Hell’s Angels started out as post WW II PTSD afflicted (though we didn’t know it was PTSD back then) disaffected dropouts of life. In biking, outlaws find they can recreate the “good parts version” of the military life. You live by your wits, refuse to listen to “other people’s” rules, and you know you can trust the guy riding next to you, behind and in front of you with your life.

As time went on, more people probated and more outlaw clubs proliferated as more and more disillusioned soldiers came out of Korea, VietNam and other nasty little wars they were forced into. Riding gives you a feeling of freedom. We fought for freedom and came back to the country we fought for and just didn’t fit in anywhere any more. So we grabbed the freedom we had won.

We are 1%'ers. The 1% of the population that just doesn’t fit in anywhere, so we hang together.

PTSD feeds paranoia, so weapons became a fact of life. There’s not a lot of ways to make a lot of money as an outlaw, either, so to keep your bikes running or to customize them, it often involved “borrowing” bikes from careless, non-paranoid riders, to keep yours running. Usta be that outlaws didn’t mess with drugs, cause “drugs bring the man.” Then someone discovered how much money could be made dealing, and it sure beat stealing bikes for a living. But drugs have a way of turning on you.

For the most part outlaws don’t bother much with ‘citizens’ in their ‘cages,’ unless they get in the way, or drive too carelessly near the bikes. Don’t mess with outlaws; it ain’t worth it. Don’t mess with them and they usually won’t mess with you (though as with any group, there will be exceptions). The Hollywood image is pure BS. Scare tactics, under the name of entertainment. It ain’t that way.

Mostly we are recreational riders - don’t say that like it’s a bad word. Mostly we want to ride when we want to, do what we want to do, be left alone, and not have to worry about where we’re gonna get parts. So the Angels get money from copyrights. Smart dudes!

If you’ve been there, you understand. If you haven’t, I can’t explain it to you.
“For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For everyone else, no explanation is possible.”

22

Didn’t it originate as a way of raising money to bail out fellow riders who were jailed (more or less for no reason?)

23

No question that outlaws get more than their share of harassment from cops. It’s probably unwise to generalize about the motivation – it was a question of getting money, for whatever reasons - bail, bikes, food, chicks, rent. Some outlaws worked, even!
I don’t know how selling drugs originated, I was never in a club that was dealing.

24

Based on the time I have spent in the courts (IAAL), I call bullshit on that. In my city they, and their wannabees, are the most violent thing going. Thank god for the police, the crowns and the courts who try to limit the damage they cause. Drug importation and distribution. Assaults. Violent robberies. Murders.

25

But you only get to see the bad ones.

26

Take for example the fellow for whom I was co-counsel on his failed appeal. He shot a couple of his drug dealing buddies, and then shot an innocent kid working at a gas bar. Three cold blooded murders. What were the ground for his appeal? Police harassment for picking up his girlfriend on aiding and abetting charges to put pressure on him to confess. More than their share of harassment? Boo fuckin’ hoo. What it comes down to is that the police try to keep tabs on the Hell’s Angels members and their wannabees because of the heneious crime these people keep perpetrating. If the outlaw biker gang members don’t want the “harassment”, then they should stop committing major crimes, and stop associating with one of the heaviest players in organized crime in our country.

27

Paul, it is not a matter of a social club with the odd bad card. It is a matter of a major criminal organization that causes great harm that has the odd person who is not into crime. At the fringes there are petty criminals and losers. Closer in are the wannabees who do much of the dirty work. At the heart are the hardcore major criminals who pull the strings. Think carefully about what sort of person wants to bond with others who prey on innocent people.

28

Hey, I asked what the Angels are now, not what they were in the 60s. Maybe that’s what they are now.

29

Although if the only ones you see are in court, you’re still only seeing the bad ones.

30

Check out Taking Care of Business. I read it when I was about 12, which was over a decade ago, so it might be a little outdated. I had an interest because of my Uncle 22758-083, who has been in prison since 1987 and whose first chance for parole isn’t until next year.

[Anecdotal story]

My dad rides a Harley and once stopped on the side of the road outside of Winston-Salem, NC to help a guy whose bike was broke down. He fixed the guy’s bike and it turned out that the guy was a Hell’s Angel. He invited my dad back to the clubhouse and, well, that’s just not the sort of thing you decline on. My dad stayed briefly, and I think maybe had a beer, and then got the hell out of there. He said they were genuinely nice guys and extended an open-ended welcome to him at the clubhouse. He had a good experience but for obvious reasons never took them up on their invite.

31

The Scandinavian biker gangs fought their turf wars with the most bizarre brutality. Machinegunning people in front of their families, attacking each other with fucking AT4 anti-armour rockets - submachineguns, handgrenades, time bombs. As much as they tried to pretend that it was some sort of wild-west mano-a-mano honourable feud, they were not above a bit of sniping or ambushing when it was convenient.

Now, when the law finally has came down on them, they’re whining about how they’re being victimized by the evil police state. (Also, they’ve become quite fond of slander lawsuits. I guess the “outlaw” bit doesn’t really count when they can use the law in their favour.)

I’ve never understood why the image of “the outlaw biker” is considered somehow glamorous. Plenty of people manage to do their own thing without being a friggin’ menace. Anyone who deals drugs or run protection rackets to finance his motorcycle habit has forfeited his right to be left alone.

32

No argument. I’m not trying to glamorize anything. Ya break the law, ya get caught, ya get what ya deserve.

Lots of outlaw bikers aren’t a menace. Lots act that way just to be left alone. Some are a menace, but it’s nothing to do with being an outlaw.

So they try to get out of it. You expect them not to? If you got arrested wouldn’t you try to get out of it? Or would you roll over and play dead?

And don’t give me that “guilt by association” bullshit. That’s just like racism: “Someone’s a biker so they deserve to be harassed.” You can shove that criminal attitude where the sun don’t shine. Or maybe in your country they harass blacks and jews, too?

Sounds like you got criminals that are incidently outlaw bikers. Prosecute your criminals however you have to. Execute murderers, give drug dealers life, the whole nine yards. Nobody’s complaining (but the criminals). But don’t give me that shit that “outlaw biker = criminal.”

You know the reason why outlaw bikers are called outlaw bikers? An organization called “The American Motorcycle Association” appointed itself as the rulemaking body for all motorcyclists. “All riders must wear helmets” and all that shit. As I already said, we don’t like being told what to do, so we formed our own clubs, not in the AMA, hence named “outlaw.” You don’t have to be a lawbreaker to be an “outlaw.”

I will own that lots of outlaw bikers are lawbreakers. So are lots of lawyers, politicians, doctors, sports heroes, movie stars and every one else.

Don’t judge people by the clothes they wear, what they drive or ride, their politics or other superficial things. Judge them by what they do. From what you say it sounds like you got some real criminals up there, but don’t mind me if I take what you say with a grain of salt – sounds like you are prejudiced.

33

Organized crime in general is weak in today’s modern times; as a whole, I’d wager that the average big corporation is more corrupt and more exploitative than the Hell’s Angels or any other group.

Think about this: did the Hell’s Angels ever take $300 out of your paycheck?

I’d rather pay protection money to the Mafia than have a confiscatory income tax.

34

A review of that book said, in part:

It’s easy to point fingers at easy targets.

On the other hand, call a spade a spade (but don’t assume all cards are spades).

35

Well, that’s all right then. :rolleyes:

The one word I associate with Hells Angels is “inadequate” …

36

Haven’t been there, but I think I understand what you’re saying.

37

I could see the involvement with some drugs, like speed, beginning because of the need to stay alert on long runs…and not wanting to fall asleep at an Angel party! From there it might progress to selling to your friends, then to other chapters, then non-bikers, and so on.

38

Do the murders and robberies stem mainly from the drug trade? If so it might be useful to think of these crimes as part of a general criminal issue, or a drug issue, and not necessarily a 1% biker issue.

Oh, is “crowns” Canadian for "federal D.A.? You are Canadian, right?

39

Funny how outlaw biker gang members are the first to demand fair treatment by the authorities (and which in fact they receive), yet they are not willing to play society’s rules themselves.

Convictions are based on proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Surveillance is based on probable cause. That’s not harassment. That’s proper law enforcement.

There is a world of difference between voluntary, deliberate association in a major criminal organization, and being born into a particular race or culture. Suggesting that proper law enforcement against criminal biker gangs is akin to racism does not hold water.

40

We have had the same problem the next province over in Quebec, where the Hell’s Angels have been at war with the Rock Machine. There have been may bombings, which have killed over 150 people, including children and other innocent bystanders.

Here in Ontario there has only been one bombing of which I am aware, but we are still in the early innings, for up until the last couple of years, Ontario was pretty much free of the two, and instead had minor independant biker gangs and a few puppet clubs. Hell’s Angels absorbed Satan’s Choice, which was a major drug importer and distributor (particularly in the north-west border area), so I expect that is is just a matter of time until Hell’s Angels and the Rock Machine escalate their turf war into Ontario.