What is the difference between traditional Republicans and Tea Partiers?

[ElvisL1ves]

@BrainGlutton

Yeah – why is that? The GOP has plenty of intellectual talent, or used to not so long ago. How come the Pubs don’t seem to have any ideas any more beyond “No!”?

It’s still there, but it’s been either intimidated into silence or alienated into nonaffiliation. What happened is the party leadership’s intent focus on returning to power, based on whatever soundbite Frank Luntz tells them polls well in focus groups. The latest one is the claim that financial reform is a “permanent bailout”, a story they were trying to sell before even learning what the Dodd/Corker bill even is.

The true fault lies, of course, with the people willing to buy that shit, not with the GOP leadership for peddling it, though.

[BrainGlutton]

Even Hitler is frustrated.

[ElvisL1ves]

Okay, Sam, how about at least telling us who you’re calling “The Left”? Can you do that much for the Fight Against Ignorance?

[Squink]

@ElvisL1ves

The true fault lies, of course, with the people willing to buy that shit…

Well, and with Reagan for cozying up to such trash in order to win political office.

[Sam_Stone]

@ElvisL1ves

Okay, Sam, how about at least telling us who you’re calling “The Left”? Can you do that much for the Fight Against Ignorance?

Oh, I think you can figure out who the left is if you apply yourself really hard to the task.

I actually find this whole thread bizarre. You guys on the left are trying to smear the tea parties with the actions of a small number of people. At least, you haven’t established that it’s a large number - a handful of photos of wacky signs certainly doesn’t make the cut. I pointed out that there are bad actors on the left, and suddenly you’re all indignant about the use of individual cases to smear your side? Sauce for the gander, and all that.

We’re heard a lot about potential tea party violence. But the only real violence that’s occurred so far has been perpetrated against the Tea Partiers. You’ve got Bill Clinton warning the Tea Partiers about being careful not to incite violence, but the worst case of violence that has happened so far was when a black Tea Party member was beaten and sent to the hospital by SEIU goons - after Obama told his supporters to ‘punch back twice as hard’ at opponents. There have been other incidents of SEIU intimidation and violence directed at tea partiers.

Andrew Brietbart recorded union people misdirecting traffic to send tea party buses in the wrong direction, and throwing eggs at them as they drove by.

The Democrats have their panties in a bunch over ‘extremist rhetoric’, which they claim is at an all-time high. Apparently they forgot about the 8 years of attacks on George Bush, including Craig Kilborn putting up a picture of Bush with a ‘Snipers Wanted’ sign under it on his TV show, pictures of Bush with a bullet hole in his head being carried at rallies, ‘bushitler’ signs everywhere, and the common refrain from Democrats that Bush ‘stole’ the election and was illegitimate.

The last violent protest in the U.S. was last year, but it was a left-wing protest. How come you guys aren’t worried about violence on the left? Oh, and I’d say you could start worrying more about the Tea Partiers when they stop showing up at rallies with their children, and start showing up wearing helmets and face masks like the people in that video.

When Ari Fleischer said, “People should be careful what they say,” a lot of people on the left went apoplectic that an administration official should dare suggest they limit their speech. But now half the freaking Democratic party is trying to shout down the tea partiers.

Remember when it was outrageous to impugn someone’s patriotism because they opposed the administration? Remember, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”? Apparently not any more. Joe Klein has said that Beck and Palin may be guilty of sedition.

You want to know which side of this debate is more violent? Here’s a test - we know that the Congressional Black Caucus and Nancy Pelosi could walk through a Tea Party rally unmolested, and without any security. Why don’t you try carrying some anti-abortion signs or some other conservative signs and go walk through an ANSWER rally or a MoveOn rally? Let me know how that works out for you. Go put on a fur coat and march through a PETA demonstration. Go break a picket line wearing an anti-union slogan.

This manufactured outrage at the ‘extremist rhetoric’ of the Tea Party is a real hoot coming from the likes of Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and rhetorical bomb throwers like Al Sharpton and James Carville. It’s a double hoot coming from the lefties on this board, who have been engaging in rhetoric far more ‘extreme’ than anything I’ve heard from anyone in the tea party.

For that matter, right out of the gate liberals starting calling tea partiers ‘tea baggers’ with a snigger, knowing damned well it was an offensive sexual term, and not really caring who they antagonized. That includes major figures in the media and the Democratic party, long after everyone knew exactly what the term meant and why it was offensive.

And now there’s a full-court press on to smear the entire movement as consisting of nothing more than racist, homophobic knuckle draggers.

But it’s the Tea Party that should watch what it says, right? Because they’re the hateful ones. They’re the extremists. Uh huh.

[Sam_Stone]

Here’s a left-wing protest that happened on March 9, this year. Among the non-hateful, non-extremist signage were beauties like “Capitalist FUCKS”. With plenty of screaming obscenities to go along with it.

The obligatory young men in helmets and facial bandanas can be seen, all set for violence in the Youtube era. And you’ve got to like the screaming guy in the Che Guevera T-Shirt. For those of you who forgot, Che was the murderous Communist thug who was Castro’s hatchet man. Hell of a role model.

A few weeks later, Bobby Jindal’s assistant and her boyfriend were sent to the hospital after being beaten by protesters after a GOP fundraiser.

Can you imagine the outcry if some Tea Party members beat up one of Nany Pelosi’s aides and sent her to the hospital after her walk through the rally? It would be immense.

Protests like this make the Tea Party rallies look like bake sales. But no one seems to be wringing their hands over left-wing violence and extremist rhetoric.

[C3]

@Sam Stone

A few weeks later, Bobby Jindal’s assistant and her boyfriend were sent to the hospital after being beaten by protesters after a GOP fundraiser.

The police said there was no evidence that the attack was politically motivated and they don’t know who the perpetrators are.

[Fear_Itself]

@C3

The police said there was no evidence that the attack was politically motivated and they don’t know who the perpetrators are.

Don’t confuse Sam with the facts. He’s on a roll.

[ElvisL1ves]

@Sam_Stone

Oh, I think you can figure out who the left is if you apply yourself really hard to the task.

No, I’m asking you, as someone who habitually uses the term as if it referred to a monolith with a single mind. No ducking now - who exactly are you referring to? What makes you think your monolithic use of the term is appropriate? Explain your thinking if you want it to be taken at all seriously. If all you want to do is denounce strawmen, that would be indistinguishable from what you’re doing here.

I actually find this whole thread bizarre. You guys on the left are trying to smear the tea parties with the actions of a small number of people.

So you’re just not going to address your own conduct in doing exactly the same, with one single person who hasn’t actuallly done it? Really? You’re going to pretend that didn’t happen, and that it’s everyone pointing it out who’s “bizarre”?

At least, you haven’t established that it’s a large number

There is considerably more evidence submitted here that the sign-carriers are representative than that the non-carriers are, right? You got anything but more bluster?

I pointed out that there are bad actors on the left

But without bringing up any actual examples, despite your brave-sounding offer.

But the only real violence that’s occurred so far has been perpetrated against the Tea Partiers.

Have you gone and told the Capitol Police they’re lying, as already suggested to you? No? Why not? Are they or aren’t they?

Obama told his supporters to ‘punch back twice as hard’ at opponents.

Cite? In context, if you can manage it?

Andrew Brietbart recorded union people misdirecting traffic to send tea party buses in the wrong direction, and throwing eggs at them as they drove by.

If that were true, it would be easily cross-referenceable by somebody with less of an agenda.

The Democrats have their panties in a bunch over ‘extremist rhetoric’, which they claim is at an all-time high.

Who has been saying that?

the common refrain from Democrats that Bush ‘stole’ the election and was illegitimate.

That’s not extremist, that’s factual. Perhaps you can’t tell the difference.

The last violent protest in the U.S. was last year

Again, are the Capitol Police liars?

But now half the freaking Democratic party is trying to shout down the tea partiers.

Now you’re just being silly.

Remember when it was outrageous to impugn someone’s patriotism because they opposed the administration?

Remember when there were cogent, principled reasons behind it? No? You never recognized that reason and principle can lead to other positions than the ones you hold?

Remember, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”? Apparently not any more. Joe Klein has said that Beck and Palin may be guilty of sedition.

When you can recognize the difference between opposing a policy, or package of policies, on the basis of their being mistaken and opposing an entire administraiton and all of its actions on the basis of an unadmitted partisanship, let us know.

Here’s a test - we know that the Congressional Black Caucus and Nancy Pelosi could walk through a Tea Party rally unmolested, and without any security.

Are the Capitol Police liars?

[quote]
For that matter, right out of the gate liberals starting calling tea partiers ‘tea baggers’ with a snigger, knowing damned well it was an offensive sexual term, and not really caring who they antagonized.

[quote]
Yet another of your falsehoods. The teabaggers chose the term themselves. Did you know that? No? The sniggering is over their ignorance.

And now there’s a full-court press on to smear the entire movement as consisting of nothing more than racist, homophobic knuckle draggers.

That, again, is what the cites you yourself keep posting here keep demonstrating. Deal with it.
I hope you’re feeling better after that release of bile. Now try relating it to reality, okay, sport?

And then you can start working on that quick summary of teabagger policy agenda items that need to be considered and respected. You really could have done that in far less time, if you actually could do it at all.

[Little_Nemo]

Oh, I think you can figure out who the left is if you apply yourself really hard to the task.

I actually find this whole thread bizarre. You guys on the left are trying to smear the tea parties with the actions of a small number of people. At least, you haven’t established that it’s a large number - a handful of photos of wacky signs certainly doesn’t make the cut. I pointed out that there are bad actors on the left, and suddenly you’re all indignant about the use of individual cases to smear your side? Sauce for the gander, and all that.

You continue to maintain your double standard. You’re willing to condemn the entire “left” for anything done by any member of it. And at the same time you want to exonerate the “right” for the actions of its members.

[GIGObuster]

BTW it is not just pollsters that noticed that the Tea Partiers are not really a grassroots phenomenon, it is mostly an old fashion “astroturfing” phenomenon brought to us by a fractured and biased media.

As I followed many science and political sources regarding global warming, this point that many of the Tea Baggers can be differentiated from traditional Republicans because they follow Glenn Beck or Fox news is not a new thing. What I notice also is that many deniers of the science like Glenn Beck are also misguiding many in that movement, and that misinformation has also an astroturf element: corporations that are pushing the point to the movement that any government intervention to reign on CO2 emissions is a socialist idea. It is no coincidence IMHO that that “idea” that ‘any government intervention will be a socialist solution’ is embraced by many Tea Baggers and they are also part of the effort to derail the climate bill in congress.

Tea Party Supporters Wealthier, More Educated - Still Bitter

Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more educated than average Americans, and they are more likely than the average to declare that their personal financial situation is fairly good or very good, according to a new poll by the New York Times and CBS News. They also are inclined to approve of Medicare and Social Security. Yet they remain mad as hell and determined to blame President Barack Obama for all that irks them about America.

There is a creepy consistency to these polls that suggest the real problem with the political conversation in America is not rooted in economic malaise. Rather, it rests at the feet of a fractured and biased media.

That, at least, is the only way I can explain why people who are better off and, on balance, satisfied with the country’s most controversial forays into “socialism,” remain outraged at the performance of their government and determined to blame all of its failings on a guy who took office just weeks before Tea Party protests began - at which time when the wars were already started and the economy was already on its face.

The argument for media responsibility rests of two points. First, the Tea Party phenomenon has been consistently reported as a serendipitous, grassroots upswelling of public anger, notwithstanding the evidence that it has been organized, funded and promoted by highly partisan groups like FreedomWorks, and Americans for Prosperity - both of them fronting for the deeply self-interested Koch Industries. If well-off and well-educated Americans are joining an angry protest, it’s at least in part because they have the impression that their well-off and well-educated neighbours started it. They have been suckered and the media have been part of the play.

The second argument for media responsibility goes back to some research that the Pew Center did a couple of years ago. Pew was looking at the partisan divide over climate change and found - shockingly - that better-educated Republicans were MUCH more likely to be confused about climate change. The only explanation for that confusion is that well-educated people also tend to be well-read. And in a fractured media marketplace, the well-read can choose their information sources with the biases already pre-loaded. Want to be doubtful about climate change? Read the Wall Street Journal. Want to be mad about government? Tune in Rush. Want a steady diet of stories suggesting that there may be problems with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change - or even an international socialist conspiracy to bind all the world to the will of a single, carbon-constraining government? Watch Fox News.

[BrainGlutton]

@GIGObuster

BTW it is not just pollsters that noticed that the Tea Partiers are not really a grassroots phenomenon, it is mostly an old fashion “astroturfing” phenomenon brought to us by a fractured and biased media.

But . . . but . . . Everyone knows the media has a liberal bias!

[ElvisL1ves]

Views held by Mark Williams, head of the Tea Party Express group that sponsored the latest series of rallies:

he rails against Obama as an “Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug,’’ and “racist in chief’’ … Williams has called former President Jimmy Carter a “slithering worm of a man,’’ and claimed Carter’s support for Arab leaders indicated that he “longs for an oven of fresh baked Jews.’’

Yes, I know, he isn’t representative either, despite being the group’s head. But, refreshingly, he apparently isn’t on the Fox payroll, he’s just auditioning.

[Steve_MB]

@Sam_Stone

Before I answer that, I’d like you to agree to something: If I can find a picture of someone from a left-wing rally carrying a sign that’s really offensive and/or really stupid, will you agree with me that the left is exactly as stupid as the right? Fair’s fair, and all.

You’ll also need picutures of the Democratic Party elected officials who came out to speak to them and implicitly endorse them.

[Czarcasm]

@ElvisL1ves

Views held by Mark Williams, head of the Tea Party Express group that sponsored the latest series of rallies:Yes, I know, he isn’t representative either, despite being the group’s head. But, refreshingly, he apparently isn’t on the Fox payroll, he’s just auditioning.

If nobody’s point of view apparently represents the the Tea Party, then perhaps the Tea Party represents nobody’s point of view?

[Squink]

@Czarcasm

If nobody’s point of view apparently represents the the Tea Party, then perhaps the Tea Party represents nobody’s point of view?

Your just plain wrong there, Czarcasm. The Tea Party represents views which are correct, and also, because of the structure of the group itself, unassailable.
That unassailability is part of what the TPers refer to when they say they are inventing an entirely new concept.
Soon it will be an unstoppable Juggernaut, trundling towards Washington.

[BrainGlutton]

@BrainGlutton

Even Hitler is frustrated.

Scheissdrekka! :mad:

[septimus]

Rereading this thread, I still wasn’t clear on Tea Party philosophy.

But here’s a Bill Maher video which seems to cover the highlights of their thinking.

Enjoy.

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

My old cracker of a boss is getting into it.

Sending emails abot the TP boys, & leaving printouts on their desks.

DAMMIT! We work for State Government! Racist crap & political activities on site can get you fired!

And the old fool is 2 1/2 years from retiring/paying off his house, too!