What is the lesson of Passover?

[Mijin]

@Mijin

Many Christian’s describe themselves…

:smack:

[Tom_Tildrum]

@Mijin

Many Christian’s describe themselves as “god fearing”. If you were to choose a god, you wouldn’t choose one that you had to fear but that’s just it: many christians see it as no more a choice than gravity.

Just as an aside, I think there is evidence that “God-fearing” has changed its meaning over the centuries, and that it was intended to convey respect or reverence toward God, and not fear as we understand the term today.

[Voyager]

@Tom_Tildrum

You’re assuming that God is a human invention, which they are free to take or leave. People of faith don’t approach God that way. To them, God just is, and it’s up to them to understand him.

Think of it this way: Consider how many people die from falling – out of windows, off of cliffs, etc. Why don’t you simply reject this barbaric, murderous law of gravity?

Perhaps because I can test gravity by dropping something? I can do all sorts of stuff that supposedly will piss off a god and get away with it just fine.

Now I agree that it isn’t necessarily a choice. You get told about the god of your parents from an early age, usually are kept from anything that will dispute its existence, be taught about it by members of the community who are highly respected, and see that people who reject your god often come to bad ends. And attempt to reason logically about God leads to people telling you that god doesn’t like to be tested, reason cannot understand god, and if you just believe you will believe. But that people raised under these constraints “choose” not to leave doesn’t mean it is impossible, as many atheists have shown.

[begbert2]

@Voyager

Perhaps because I can test gravity by dropping something? I can do all sorts of stuff that supposedly will piss off a god and get away with it just fine.

God’s just waiting until his own time to smite you, see. And don’t forget Larry, who drowned while fishing when he should have been in church. Or Andrew, who rejected God and became a filthy atheist and then boom! Got cancer, fifteen years later. You can test god, yes, but he will get you. Eventually.

ETA: And how could I forget Benny, the crook who lived fat and rich and then died in his sleep - and went to Hell. There is no escape!
The thing about confirmation bias is, it kind of messes up your ability to test things objectively. And while you may not have this problem, you’re talking about the way people of faith approach God, not you.

[Voyager]

@begbert2

God’s just waiting until his own time to smite you, see. And don’t forget Larry, who drowned while fishing when he should have been in church. Or Andrew, who rejected God and became a filthy atheist and then boom! Got cancer, fifteen years later. You can test god, yes, but he will get you. Eventually.

ETA: And how could I forget Benny, the crook who lived fat and rich and then died in his sleep - and went to Hell. There is no escape!
The thing about confirmation bias is, it kind of messes up your ability to test things objectively. And while you may not have this problem, you’re talking about the way people of faith approach God, not you.

But comparing something untestable, god, with something testable, gravity, and equating them is an invalid trick, faith or no faith. The implication is that it is as dumb to deny god as it is to deny gravity, and that’s bull. Religion thrives on this type of false equivalence.
Now, people have been brainwashed into accepting it, but faith or no faith selective anecdotes are not the same as controlled experiments.

[begbert2]

@Voyager

But comparing something untestable, god, with something testable, gravity, and equating them is an invalid trick, faith or no faith. The implication is that it is as dumb to deny god as it is to deny gravity, and that’s bull. Religion thrives on this type of false equivalence.
Now, people have been brainwashed into accepting it, but faith or no faith selective anecdotes are not the same as controlled experiments.

If you’re trying to argue that “people of faith” are using warped logic, then you’re not going to get much argument from me - they’ve got false premises in their logic systems which are (as one would expect) making their conclusions unsound. However Tom Tildrum was merely pointing out that this is happening, not saying that having broken logic was a good thing, so I don’t see much reason for you to argue against him (or me).

[Find_Friends]

@Voyager

Thinking of the story as literature, this makes good sense. As reality, not so much. Mr. Bricker was worried about the economic considerations of freeing the Hebrews, but wiping out a good chunk of the future slave population doesn’t make a lot of economic sense also. And it is pretty clear that the Pharaoh at the time of the Exodus was not the Pharaoh at the time of the birth of Moses - even though I don’t think Yul Brynner was involved. So, god took his sweet time getting revenge. There is also no indication of an imbalance of women over men you’d expect to have seen if this had happened.

When this was written destroying entire cities and killing their inhabitants was still fairly common. The Jews probably liked to think back to the good old days when they were have supposed to have been victorious, non-Jews np doubt didn’t give a crap, this being before the invention of comparative religion courses.

Yes. Posing the question of whether any ancients found the story disturbing was very odd, IMO.

Should I even raise this question? If a Hebrew criticism of the story *had been *written down, what is the likelihood of it surviving to this day. I’d say none.

@Voyager

From reading the recent popular books on Bible history, it seems that the consensus is now that neither was true. There were no identified set of Hebrews that long ago, and thus no Exodus.

The Bible Unearthed is the book I read. It is fascinating. Biblical archeology is not one of my hobbies, so I don’t know what the modern view is now. I’m pretty sure it is not that the Exodus story has any credence. I’m not sure of the origin of the story either.

I’d like to look into t more, as well. I recall a PBS special which had the Hebrew tribes emerging from Canaan, at a time that it was under Egypt. The Israelite tribes wanted to distance themselves from Canaanite culture, including what they decided was idolatry. They also desired a simpler lifestyle, eschewing what they considered superfluous.

Then they went to great lengths to rewrite history, even going so far as to make the near relatives they branched off from descendants of Ham, not Shem, and under a special curse.

Now, it’s a great distance from the “great” Bible “truths” I grew up with to this unlikely story of Canaanite rebels who rewrote their history. But I’m inclined to buy it.

Anything at all would make more sense than the crappy Bible narrative. With all the livestock killed or taken away by the Hebrews, the Pharaoh could hardly have given chase with a great multitude of horses.

And the gross silliness of the Bible “record” :dubious: just begins there.

But, of course, the blind faith is a truly wonderful thing. :rolleyes:

• Og

[Shatmess]

The God of the Bible is the God of Man. Built for man, by man, for the needs of man! The God of Moses in the story of Passover is Jealous, Vain, and, in all other ways we can surmise, Human.
This is the only explanation for his methodology. He deliberately allows his so-called “chosen people” to suffer in slavery by leaving the Egyptians unpunished for over four centuries and then OUT OF THE BLUE he decides to call it in. All so he can show the world his power! What are the Jews chosen for? Suffering! The Jew was made to suffer. I should know…I have been Jewish my whole life and all I do is Suffer. Even when I am having fun I am still suffering. This is because when God made the Jew he also made Jewish Mothers…but I digress…

 If you are Christian then the "Rabbit Whole" goes much deeper!  Because now you have a God who enacts a plan that takes several hundred years, ruins millions of lives, and leaves the people he promised to free stranded in the desert for 40 years to then turn around and drop the big JC on you!   Now we have a self-hating god!  Obviously written by a Jewish man.  He speaks out against everything he is...Jealous, hateful, angry and so on.  He asks you now instead of crushing your enemies to practice love and forgiveness?

To me this is the Biggest Elephant in the Biggest of Rooms! God Gets A Makeover! But never ONCE does anything in either texts of the Bible have anything to say on it! When did God make this Transition?..WHY? Don’t you think this is the biggest God event yet and not ONE WORD mentioned on it!

To conclude…God of the bible is a SHAM! But not just any sham…more like a SHAM WOW! Seriously…I have seen episodes of power rangers that have more plausibility than the bible…The lesson of passover is Everyone in this world is looking out for their own interests and no one cares about you…Especially not ME!