What is the number one reason why some people succeed in life?

Great Debates
161

Tell me monstro, what happened after each of those mistakes and each time you were proverbially knocked down to the canvas? Did you stay down? I didn’t think so.

Don’t get me wrong. Of course you were fortunate. At any point the two ton weight could fall from the sky and crush you. Might yet. But you have done your part to take advantage of the opportunities that presented themselves and did not just passively let life happen to you. The extremely successful rarely include those who give up easily or who let life happen to them as if it was a spectator sport. Sure a driven, intelligent, creative person could be an abject failure too - many are. And many get back up only to knocked down again and again until they die. But few passive individuals succeed. There are prerequisites to success but no guarantees.

162

That’s what I call luck. I’m not knocking it, as I’ve been quite a fortunate recipient of it on a frequent basis, but it’s still luck. Yes, I took that luck and ran with it, but luck was still a large part of the equation.

I should note that I do agree that there are people who might have had the same luck as me and not turned it into success for various reasons, so I’m not saying it’s the only thing involved. I’m simply saying that, through luck, I’ve been exposed to a lot more of those “opportunities”, for lack of a better word, than many people. Were I born to poor parents in some third-world country, I still might have made it, but there would have been a shitload fewer opportunities for that to happen, and a lot more roadblocks along the way.

163

Playing poker will disabuse you of the notion that success in life comes down to ‘luck’. I still maintain that in the long run, we all get our share of good and bad luck. The successful ones take advantage of the good luck, and avoid the major pitfalls of the bad luck.

In poker, on any given day you can be lucky or unlucky. The best players can lose to the worst because of the random falling of the cards. Very bad luck can even cause you to lose over a period of weeks or even months.

But in the end, put your money on the best players, because they’ll eventually get all the chips.

Life is no different. Yes, there is luck involved, both good and bad. But the question is not whether luck plays a role, but whether luck predominates for the average person. And there’s just no way that it does. In generally, you can predict who will be successful and who won’t, just by looking at the actions they take. The ones who work hard, who don’t quit their jobs at the first sign of annoyance or discomfort, who stay in school, who try hard to please their employers and their families, and who take care to invest wisely and save money, will in the long run be far more successful than those who allow themselves to be buffeted around by the winds of fortune.

In a way, it’s comforting to believe that the really successful people got where they were because of luck, because it helps you explain your own not-as-successful life without facing up to the fact that you perhaps let opportunities slip by out of fear or lack of preparation, or that your life isn’t as successful as it could be because you chose a mate poorly, or because you didn’t control your spending impulses, or because you got tired of studying and taking tests and went to work instead. Or maybe you thought that the co-worker who put in 20 unpaid hours a week for the company was a sucker, and you worked to order and on the clock, and no more.

I’ve been fairly successful in life - I have no complaints. But I can look in the rear-view mirror and definitely see opportunities I let slip away either through laziness, or fear, or indecisiveness. I know I could have done better in school. I spent too many years just spinning my wheels when i could have been improving myself. I could have worked harder instead of sitting on the Straight Dope. I’ve seen people climb the corporate ladder in my current firm, and almost without exception they are exactly the people you expected to see climb that ladder. They worked hard, they were rarely seen just goofing off or surfing the web at work, they dressed well and were nice to their co-workers, and generally made themselves an asset. Sometimes I’ve been that guy, and sometimes not.

Finally, you can’t draw conclusions based on the outliers. A guy who wins the lottery was successful because he got lucky. A person born with Down’s Syndrom was unlucky. And these factors will predominate in their lives. But for the vast majority of people sitting on the bell curve, success in life will be the result of the actions they take, and not the luck that befalls them.

164

I think luck comes into play in ways in which it generally isn’t acknowledged…or even recognized.

Take Johnny Carson for example. I recall his becoming visibly miffed with a comedian who insinuated that he had been lucky in his life and his career. Johnny obviously felt that luck had nothing (or very little) to do with it and that he had worked very hard to achieve the success he had.

But had he not had the type of looks, charm, personality and turn of mind that he had (and which he was pretty much either born with already or born with the inclination and ability to recognize the need for and develop accordingly) he would never have had either the opportunity to put that hard work to use or to enjoy the widespread adulation that he received and which made his huge success and stardom possible.

In other words, a guy like Buddy Hackett couldn’t have enjoyed the same type of stardom no matter how hard he worked at it.

Thanks for the update. I hadn’t been aware of that.

165

I’m going to go ahead and guess that the same people who insist that luck is the most important determining factor of achievement can’t name one predominant strength, motivation or purpose that they develop on a daily basis.

Am I right or am I wrong?

166

Wrong in my case, at least. My daily motivation and purpose at work is to do my job so well that they don’t need me anymore on that particular project. It’s a good trait for a consultant, and the end result is that they appreciate it so much that they find new things for me to do, accomplish, and not be needed at anymore. My strength is that I’m able to actually accomplish that purpose. Luck is what put me in the position to do so in the first place.

167

I wasn’t aware we were talking about the “average” person, who I’ll agree, doesn’t get as lucky as many of the “successful” people who I thought we were discussing.

168

Didn’t you just refute yourself? Buddy Hackett had none of the qualities you say Carson needed to be successful, and yet Buddy Hackett became an extremely successful actor/comedian. He was short, dumpy, had a speech impediment. He wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer. But he became more successful than 99% of the people in America.

As for Johnny Carson, there are people with charisma and good looks all over the place. What made Johnny rise to the top? Do you think he was just naturally gifted with the ability to talk to people? That he was a natural born comedian? Or that he was just lucky and happened to be in the right place at the right time?

He wasn’t. He worked his ass off. He wanted to be a magician when he was younger, and he spent hours and hours at it as a boy. He practiced in front of mirrors, he practiced for his family, he tried out for magic gigs, etc. But he wasn’t all that gifted at it. So he shifted gears and tried something else. And worked hard at that too. When he first started interviewing people, he wasn’t all that great. He studied his mistakes, learned from them, re-invented himself, and kept trying until he made it.

Part of being successful is knowing what your own limitations are and what your strengths are, and working out your own path, rather than just bemoaning your lack of talent or intelligence or whatever it is that you don’t have.

169

All of the above. He was also lucky. Had Skelton not been injured that night, Carson might not have ever stepped in front of a national television audience. Hell, Carson himself said in his final monologue:

Bill Gates acknowledges his good luck. Steve Jobs wouldn’t be where he is today if he hadn’t met Woz when Jobs was just a 16 year old kid, nor if George Lucas had stayed married. Warren Buffet refers to himself as a member of the “Lucky Sperm Club.” I don’t see why it’s so hard to accept that luck is a big factor. I’m perfectly driven, but I’m not stupid, and know that were circumstances different, I might be in a completely different place. I might be more successful, less successful, dead, alive, and the same or different in any number of ways, but luck played a huge part in me being exactly where I am.

170

My dad always says sometimes opportunity comes dressed in its work clothes. I mean, there’s luck involved, but you have to be ready to capitalize on it.

171

Nope.

Yes, he did. But he both didn’t and couldn’t have had the type of success that Carson enjoyed, which is what I said.

You seem to be taking my comments both too much to heart and yet not literally enough. Did you miss the part where I openly stated that Carson worked hard to achieve his success?

The point is, and the point which I made is, that all the hard work in the world wouldn’t have replicated the career Carson enjoyed (in all its ramifications and length and glory) had he not had the particular type of physical and mental gifts that Carson was born with.

I agree. And I agree that most highly successful people are highly successful by dint of a combination of many of the qualities outlined in this thread. Still, luck definitely plays a significant role in certain cases, and my point is that even when it does, it may very well be overlooked even by those who were blessed with it.

I’m a little surprised by your tone. Perhaps you thought my post was in response to yours immediately above it. If so, you should know that it was both composed (over a longer period of time than might be expected due to several interruptions) and posted with no knowledge of your post beforehand. IOW, my post wasn’t intended as a challenge to yours.

Yes, on Carson’s last show he stated he was lucky to have had a job he enjoyed. That is considerably different than saying he was lucky to have been born with the right looks and other attributes to make it possible (which, in that context, would have sounded ridiculous anyway).

172

I have been lucky that my mistakes have always managed to be the ones where “things will work out eventually”. I’m not a risky person, so off the bat I avoid many mistakes (as well as opportunities) that could get me in trouble. I’ve also been fortunate that my life hasn’t had a lot of major crap events, like dying family members, apartment fires, or divorce. This is a blessing as well as a curse, because experiencing major crap events help toughen you up. I’m pretty much an emotional wimp.

This is all true. Never have I said that luck is the only factor, only that it is a major factor. But as I said earlier, I think someone is fortunate if their lives always reveal a silver lining. I’ve always had someone in my corner telling me that I’m smart and if I put my mind to it (or call on God, in my mother’s case), I can succeed. I can look back on my life and see evidence of this in action. When I decided to pursue research, I knew if I failed I always had my parents to support me for awhile. Having a support system makes a person free to “try and try again”.

Furthermore, I’m lucky that I wasn’t raised to live anyone’s idea of a life but my own. If Bill Gates had been forced to get married at 13, bear and raise a whole litter of children, and be an dedicated servant to his spouse for the rest of his life, he wouldn’t have been the Bill Gates we know and love. That’s nothing but luck. And since I believe it explains why we don’t see a whole bunch of self-made housewife billionaires, I think it’s a pretty good explanation for why some people “succeed” and others don’t.

I’m not trying to begrudge Gates or anyone else of their props. Just because I can see myself as lucky doesn’t mean I think all successful people are lucky. It’s just that I think luck is often a huge factor–one that’s way too easy to ignore.

173

Of course, he had to have had the good luck to be born to a loving family in the Midwest of America. Otherwise, his circumstances could have been vastly different. The experiences that shaped him and motivated to work hard came about by chance. Maybe he still would have been successful, but the chance of his exact environment’s influence bore a lot of weight.

174

Fear of failure is a common trait among people who aren’t successful. Rarely does someone hit it out of the ballpark on their first try. To be successful, you need to be willing to take risks and potentially make mistakes.

While luck certainly plays a role, if you work hard and persevere through adversity, you need less perfect alignment from the universe. Think about how much time you spend watching TV, surfing the internet, drinking in bars, playing videogames or performing any other non-productive interest. Imagine if you spent that time in pursuit of something like starting a business or inventing a longer lasting lightbulb.

175

I’m going to refine the definition of “success” for this discussion to, “those who have affected the lives of millions of people in a positive way, in their generation and beyond”. I believe this is in alignment with the OP’s concept of success, and while the number of candidates for inclusion in this group is not exactly small, it excludes much of the riff raff. Ironically, though these people are considered successful by millions of people, many on this list may not consider their own lives to be successful on a personal level, having lived tortured lives.

I can’t think of a single quality rising above the rest, signifying the prime reason for great success. The best I can do is give a trio of qualities…and a “kicker”, that, in my opinion, together form a tried and true template for greatness:

  1. Genetics: Specifically, the brain anatomy/physiology requisite to develop some type of narrow-focused genius. This is merely my opinion, but I believe most of the truly great people throughout history were blessed (or, in some cases, cursed) with savant-like skills—deep, but narrow-focused genius—in areas likely to benefit mankind. It would not surprise me if a significant number were actually high-functioning autistic savants, having found a way to blend into society in a functional, though most likely awkwardly manner. I think qualities like “drive”, “ambition” and “determination” do not have to be listed separately as avenues to success in these people, since they go hand in hand with the condition (they would be unable to turn off their obsession off even if they wished to). They seem also to care little of the opinions of others (e.g. Beethoven, a megalomaniac who knew he was the greatest. He’d let you bask in his greatness, but don’t expect him to adhere to even basic hygiene standards in order to impress you).
  2. Being in the right place at the right time. If you possess genius in an area that isn’t appreciated or needed in your time and/or place, you won’t succeed in affecting society in a significant way, no matter how hard you try. Einstein’s non-conformity and abstract cogitative abilities would probably only succeed in getting him whipped more than his contemporaries if he were born a slave in ancient Rome. On the other hand, Revolutionary period America was a veritable breeding ground for spawning true greatness, to which we today are the lucky benefactors (Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin et al—these people literally built a great nation from scratch). In music, the Baroque period forged J.S. Bach, Classical period forged Mozart; Beethoven forged the Romantic period, people like Chopin and Liszt continued the musical paradigm shift. The Renaissance was a good time to be a savant in art, politics, science, literature or philosophy. Different times and places breed different types of greatness—many breed very little.
  3. Luck: Specifically, being lucky enough to have your greatness recognized by someone capable of facilitating your success (e.g. Mozart’s Dad, Washington taking Alexander Hamilton under his wing). People with savant-like skills are often not effective self-promoters; they need someone who can do this for them.

The kicker: Overcoming significant adversity, sometimes even abuse, from an early age. While it’s true that many people’s spirits are broken forever from childhood trauma, those who possess the mental ability to compartmentalize and control their demons are often able to unleash them later, to focus their genius even finer (e.g. think of Mozart nearly killing himself composing masterpieces at a furious pace, or Alexander Hamilton cranking out the lion’s share of the Federalist Papers at breakneck speed—you can almost imagine them doing so in order to pace themselves just ahead of their demon’s grasp). Though this “kicker” isn’t necessarily required for great success, it seems to be quite ubiquitous in the greatest of the greats.

So, what should we make of these unrelentingly awful parents and grandparents who torment their own flesh and blood, and, perhaps inadvertently, help to facilitate their rise to greatness? Through their actions, they sentence their children to lives of misery, but hugely benefit the rest of mankind. Perhaps we should admire more, those parents who helped drive their children to greatness, but did so more for their benefit, with obvious love, than for themselves. Great people who come to mind in this respect include Franz Liszt (he had a lot of emotional trauma from the women in his life, but always loved his parents) or John Quincy Adams (given a wonderful start in life under the tutelage of his father, John Adams, himself a great man—too bad he failed miserably with second son, Charles).

176

Tibbytoes,

You may interested in this book: Strange Minds and Genius. Many of the most accomplished scientific minds would indeed have their mental illnesses treated today. They would be less tortured and the world perhaps a bit less well off for it?

177

It all depends on what is meant by “success”. If by “success” we mean having a reasonably happy and productive life, I’ll agree. But if by success we mean doing something earth-shaking, then I don’t. The former is more closely analogous to a game of poker - which has, typically, many re-iterated hands (so luck averages out over time and skill dominates). The latter is more like being struck by lightning or winning the lottery - there has to be some sort of unusual opportunity to take advantage of.

178

If financial success is what we’re talking about, then here’s what it seems to take:

  1. Find a field with reasonable prospects for financial success that you’re good at (i.e. trying to be an NBA player isn’t a good bet, but if you’re smart, and numbers-oriented, being a financial person of some sort is).

  2. Make professional success your SINGLE priority. As in, you work late, you work weekends, you take on every project that you can. You play the work game as hard as you can- make special effort to socialize with people at your job who can help you on the way up.

  3. Work hard- don’t be a slacker, but this should go under #2

  4. Fit the image - you can be the best financial guy out there, but if you just try to scrape through under the dress code or you don’t act like people (esp. your superiors) conceive of how a financial guy should act, you won’t get particularly far.

  5. Be competent- this kind of goes back to #2. Make learning about your job a priority within #2.

  6. Start early. At least in my experience, unless you’re a terrific bullshitter, you’ll have to have started on your career track straight out of college, which usually means you’ll have to have made good grades and got the right job immediately after graduation.

  7. Catch a break. Luck is a big part- if you’re working somewhere, and someone gets in a fatal wreck and a position opens up that you can get, that’s the luck I’m talking about.

179

When a revolution takes everything away from a bunch of people and they all have to go somewhere else and start from scratch, most of the ones who were successful before will be successful after and most of those who were not successful before will not be successful after.

Also, as has been mentioned, lottery winners mostly do not fare as well as would be expected.

These things point strongly in favor of luck not being a major factor.

180

A few years ago, my father and I argued about this. We were talking about what we would do and how we would fare if civilization ended.

His position was that we (meaning, comfortably middle class people with educations and material possessions) would do alright.

My position was that we would be the first to die. Sure, I have a computer and an advanced degree, but I don’t know how to garden or hunt. I’ve never handled a gun. I’ve never built a shelter. I don’t know how to jerry-rig machinery. I’ve never gone to bed hungry or lived without running water. Without books detailing how to go about doing these things, I wouldn’t even know where to begin. And by the time I’d figure everything out, I’d be dead.

There are no doubt true “win at all costs” kind of people who are biologically and psychological driven to succeed and do well (though they probably aren’t very fun to hang out with). But most of us are specialists. We do well in our niche–in the context that we’re most familiar Put us in a drastically different context and we will probably do poorly.

Can you really see William Buffet or Bill Gates being any more successful on a deserted island than any randomly selected Doper? I can’t. But I do imagine some illiterate guy from a third world country doing comparably better than all of us.