I personally know several women, including my mother, who have had a baby they desperately didn’t want because they believed abortion was wrong.
Well, thankfully Der Trihs is here to explain to us they were all secretly motivated by a desire to dominate and control other women. 
…and you genuinely think that this is a simpler and more accurate explanation than them actually believing that abortion is equivalent to murder and reasoning further from there?
You have a very strange and cynical view of human nature. If I shared your view of humanity, I’d be disgusted to be one.
After that it’s hard to not read this,
as the problem being that you want there to be post birth ‘’‘abortion’‘’.
I would just make allowances for exceptional circumstances. No way I would vote for post birth abortions but just letting someone die naturally I see nothing wrong with of any age.
It is not strange and cynical. People are quite simply hypocrites. There was the case of a very outspoken anti-choice activist who was discovered to have had a procedure of convenience at some point – she did not put it forward in an effort to declare how terrible abortion is, she kept it hidden and made no reference to it until some reporter uncovered it (I cannot dig up the cite because it was fifteen or twenty years ago).
People want to have the easy road for themselves but are fine with making it a rocky road for everyone else. It is just the human way. It is not cynical, it is historical.
Yeah, I was going to write “men rule women” and changed the word without changing the order and now the entire post is ruined.
But that’s really what it is. If anyone ever had any doubts as to whether it’s sincerely about the rights of the unborn fetus, that myth should have been exploded when they started going after birth control, IUI, and making noises about going after no-fault divorce and womens’ right to vote.
All of this is about men ruling women, and abortion is the keystone of that. It’s taking away womens’ right to make life-or-death decisions about their bodies, making them serve as the vessel for a man’s seed. If you control that then you basically rule a woman, and that’s the social order that these people want.
Since their behavior doesn’t actually resemble someone who believes that, yes.
This is just a repeat of the argument on this forum over same sex marriage, with the defenders of the Right insisting over and over that the Right must have some reasonable, morally justifiable reasons for its behavior. Not because there’s any evidence for it, but because it is simply unthinkable that the Right is ill-intentioned.
But they never actually manage to produce that evidence because it doesn’t exist, the Right really is all about malice and control. Trying to pretend otherwise just gets people blindsided when they prove it true yet again.
What Lumpy said. I don’t think we should lump issues together per se, but it is useful to establish what people’s principles are and if they are being consistent.
And not as a gotcha…I’m debating in another forum with some people who are anti-abortion right from the point of fertilization, but pro-IVF, even though it typically results in many zygotes perishing for each one that might make eventually become a baby. And their views on the latter can maybe help them come to terms with the fact they don’t really think of a zygote as a person, despite the binary / absolutist logic that they have been sold.
Hard for many of us, and this is why the “pro-life” / “pro-choice” labelling is misleading.
While I think abortion is 100% a decision between a woman and her doctor, I also think a late-term abortion is a sad thing. In some crazy hypothetical where women were routinely getting late-term abortions on a whim, I would be in favor of some kind of investigation and suggestion to medical practitioners to take this more seriously. Being pro-choice doesn’t mean not caring about late-term abortions.
But fortunately, that’s not the world we live in. Women don’t choose to do something so serious on a whim, and doctors are only willing to perform the procedure if either life is in danger or there is some extraordinary circumstance.
And are physically brave considering how much effort the anti-choice people put into trying to terrorize them. A quick google indicate that there’s only four doctors in the entire US willing to do it.
It panders to the Religious Right, which is one of the Republican Right’s most loyal voting blocks as well as one of their biggest. “Be fruitful and multiply” was a great initiative when there were less than 1/2 a billion people on the entire planet but, unfortunately, it is a bad one in today’s over populated world.
You mean, like a HUMAN being?
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It’s not fair but it’s inevitable because, as this thread showed, the question arises “if someone’s against abortion, why aren’t they in favor of better access to contraception?” Which gets into the whole question of motivations, which gets into ideology.
The issue of contraception is considered pretty extreme even by those on the right. I have honestly never heard a discussion on it aside from very old traditional Catholics. I have heard people question the morality of disposing of fertilized eggs, but they don’t get too excited about it. My girlfriends would always laugh when my mother would get on her high horse and quote. " tis better to sew your seed into the belly of a whore than cast them needlessly on the ground" or something like that.
Then why is it an issue . . . other than because ‘the right’ keeps telling us how they want to ban it?
Here’s a fairly detailed article about the contraception issue. Too long to summarize quickly.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/29/trump-birth-control-contraception-00159555
People vary a very great deal.
Because one or more cases of someone being a hypocrite in this matter exist doesn’t mean that everybody is.
I’m not sure whether you’re having a case here of Everybody Is Like Me; but you do seem to be claiming Everybody Is The Same. It isn’t true.
Again, some people’s behavior doesn’t. Some people’s behavior does.
Much of the current leadership is. Not all of the followers are.
Probably somewhat more doctors than that perform late-term abortions on previously established patients who are having medical emergencies – but are not about to publicly advertise that as an available service.
Of course, that would also mean that the procedure may be performed by someone with little experience in it (despite which it’s likely to still be far less risky for the mother than attempting to continue the pregnancy.)
Do you think an adult human should be allowed to do that?
If not, why do you think a bundle of cells with no mind should be allowed to?
What you’ve personally heard appears to have very little to do with what’s been discussed.
Did you entirely miss the whole mess in the news recently about IVF being effectively banned because of its essential destruction of some of the blastocysts – and the fact that yes some people are in favor of this?
Within my lifetime – hell, within my memory, though at least in my state when I was too young to need it – contraception was extremely difficult to impossible for unmarried women to obtain and often difficult even for married women, especially if they didn’t already have many children. For that matter, the pills I was able to get a prescription for weren’t prescribed for that purpose, but for dysmenorrhea; they just had an excellently useful side effect.
Politicians have put out feelers, gotten huge pushback, and backed off publicly. Doesn’t mean that’s not what they want to do, if and when they think they’ve got the power to do it.
No, I don’t think an adult human should be allowed to sit in a woman’s uterus for 9 months without permission
Why not?
it would kill the housing market and my rental income
Is this a joke? Because it’s not clear that this isn’t the actual “reasoning” behind the abortion bans.
Women are property, unless this interferes with monetization of other property.