Our Founding Fathers were aneclectic collection of Atheists, Deists, Christians, Freemasons and Agnostics.
George Washington and John Adams in the Treaty with Tripoli
George Washington was into Deism that have nothing to do with Christian principles.
James Madison
Thomas Jefferson,
Do you want me to keep going, your view is miss-informed, mine is not wishful thinking.
So of the tens of thousands of abandoned mythologies should we believe, why should yours be allowed to force their beliefs on the dozens that still exist?
And there are many things much older than man, the age of religion is unknown.
But I promise if you look outside you will see one at least.
CFR means you have to show me that I claimed that the constitutuion/country was founded as a “Christian” nation. As you claimed. I wrote creator, I did not write “Christian”. There were many FF’s who were Christian, Deists, Agnostics, etc.
We both know all the quotes.
Your anti religious bigotry is showing. Funny how your form of bigotry is acceptable but mine, as you allege, is not.
That wasn’t the question. The question was “what secular interest does the state have for doma?” I’ve shown one. A compelling one. And, no one is forcing anything. doma simply recognizes the status quo.
There may be many “things” older than man, but as long as there has been Man, there has been religion of some kind. So you are wrong.
Am I passing laws that force my beliefs on others?
This is not even creative.
Say what? “Demonstrate” it then.
Someone at some point had to make up religion, so it by nature is going to be younger than all sorts of things that originated even before humans even were really human.
No; what’s ridiculous is forbidding gays from marrying to “provide an ideal home” for children when marriage has nothing to do with that, and when homosexuals don’t provide a worse home tom begin with.
So you are actually going to argue in favor of the idea that serial killers make better parents than homosexuals? :rolleyes:
Every time this discussion comes up, sooner or later (usually sooner) the anti-same sex marriage crowd demonstrates just how much their position is built on nothing but the irrational hatred of homosexuals.
You. You just called it irrelevant.
No tougher than showing that any other marriage is good or bad for children. And there’s no evidence that SSM is worse for children.
If you support gay marriage, you certainly are.
Wait…oh the gays can’t have kids one?
Ya, you never provided any evidence there was a state interest in that outside of your religious beliefs.
Can someone explain to me how gay marriage decreases, or even affects, the birth rate? The connection escapes me.
You keep saying this buy you don’t provide any evidence on how letting others marry effects you at all.
Will your church blow up?
Will your god destroy our cities while he allows you to go have drunk sex in a cave with your daughters?
In what way does another couples marriage effect you at all.
[quote=“Der_Trihs, post:146, topic:616983”]
Please provide evidence for this assertion. My evidence is that as far as we can determine, religion is coincidental with man.
I don’t know what to write to that. If that’s what you want to bolster your assertion wtih, then I guess have at it.
Where did I write that?
And, inevitably, a difference of opinion is quantified as hate.
to this discussion of the state’s interest in supporting traditional marriage. Words have meaning, and with that meaning, one must decipher context.
then please provide evidence for your assertion.
hoopified, you stated gay couples are not worse. So if they’re equal as parents why wouldn’t an “idealized home” include them?
If you support gay marriage, you certainly are.
[/QUOTE]
Letting other people do what they want isn’t them forcing their beliefs on you. You’ve just done the Christian thing of trying to define freedom as “absolute submission to my personal religious dogma by all of humanity”. Everyone who doesn’t submit to your every whim is “oppressing you”.
[quote=“rat_avatar, post:150, topic:616983”]
Didn’t say it did. That doesn’t change the fact that you are forcing your beliefs on others.
It doesn’t. I thought we were talking about the state?
Explain. How does a gay marriage affect your life at all?
Because they don’t include both sexes.
Well, it could be false and still be the motivation as long as Congress thought it was true, and regrettably I don’t doubt that many Congressmen genuinely believe a number of truly vile things.
All that said, hoopified seems deeply confused regarding basic issues of history, law generally, and DOMA specifically. He’s also simply wrong as a matter of fact. As the Justice Department determined by combing through what I imagine must have been a nauseating legislative history, DOMA was in fact motivated by bigotry.
It probably doesn’t. That’s not the point.
Just lest this minor detail slipped by unattended…
[quote=“hoopified, post:154, topic:616983”]
So allowing gays to marry is forcing beliefs on the state, the state that is suppose to protect the rights of those to answer to their own (non)gods?