What is with the US obsession with showing ID cards?

[greenslime1951]

OK, let’s address what’s really going on here.

The OP wants to prove that the US is uniquely “obsessed” with requiring people to show identification. That there is something specific in US legal and cultural spheres that causes this.

The most frequent time a person is asked for ID is when making a purchase with a credit card, or, of course, a check. This has nothing to do with law enforcement. A person may be asked for ID in the course of a fiduciary transaction. These are measures designed to prevent fraud, and most if not all people welcome them, since the consumer is the one being protected. This is far from unique to the US.

Policemen will ask for ID on the premise that an honest, law-abiding person would have no problem with showing identification. The local law and the situation may or may not allow the person so asked to refuse. Again, not unique to the US at all.

For what it’s worth, I felt I practically had to glue my passport to my forehead in Europe, but when traveling in the US, I was only asked for ID when I wanted to check into a motel room.

[grude]

@greenslime1951

OK, let’s address what’s really going on here.

The OP wants to prove that the US is uniquely “obsessed” with requiring people to show identification. That there is something specific in US legal and cultural spheres that causes this.

The most frequent time a person is asked for ID is when making a purchase with a credit card, or, of course, a check. This has nothing to do with law enforcement. A person may be asked for ID in the course of a fiduciary transaction. These are measures designed to prevent fraud, and most if not all people welcome them, since the consumer is the one being protected. This is far from unique to the US.

Policemen will ask for ID on the premise that an honest, law-abiding person would have no problem with showing identification. The local law and the situation may or may not allow the person so asked to refuse. Again, not unique to the US at all.

For what it’s worth, I felt I practically had to glue my passport to my forehead in Europe, but when traveling in the US, I was only asked for ID when I wanted to check into a motel room.

I’m not trying to prove anything, I noticed a trend in the USA of ID being almost a ritual in situations where it serves no direct purpose and wanted to discuss that and what might be behind it.

Out of curiousity what were the circumstances of you being asked to produce your passport constantly in Europe? Police or?

[WhyNot]

@grude

Thats kinda odd, hell why not make everyone entering and leaving a mall show ID so you’d have a list of suspects for crimes that occur within?

Because then people won’t shop there, and you won’t make money. I’m not visiting these places for fun, I’m visiting them because I have to; it’s my job. I can’t say, “Oh, I don’t want to show you my ID, so I’m not going to come back to this building.” And if I do? Well, that just made their day easier, and didn’t cost them a thing.

And the people that do give them money? The residents? They like this system, because it makes them feel safer, and their guests feel safer. So the economic pressure is to create and maintain a system which requires ID, unlike a mall, where the economic pressure is to not require ID.

[Mr_Downtown]

After 9-11, office buildings began adding idiotic and completely pointless ID requirements. Some make you give them a photo ID that they record, and they get very flustered and snippy if it’s something like a passport or Library of Congress reader card or anything other than the local drivers license. Other buildings make you sign in. They don’t look at the names, or ask for matching ID, they just insist that you write something on the next line in the logbook. I do my best to see that “George Kaplan” visits those buildings more often than might seem probable.

These give a whole new meaning to the old joke “there’s no reason for it; it’s just our policy.”

[grude]

@WhyNot

And the people that do give them money? The residents? They like this system, because it makes them feel safer, and their guests feel safer. So the economic pressure is to create and maintain a system which requires ID, unlike a mall, where the economic pressure is to not require ID.

Well that is one mystery solved then heh.

There are buildings that are secure here, you have to go through a metal detector to enter but there is no request for ID they just want to make sure you don’t have a gun or weapons. Makes me wonder why the ability to have a list of potential suspects is so important.

[Thudlow_Boink]

The OP made several claims that don’t match with my experience at all, to the extent that I wondered “WTF are you talking about?” several times while reading it. Especially the bit about random pedestrians being stopped and asked for ID; I’ve never even heard of that happening. And nowadays (in my 40s), I hardly ever get carded to prove my age when buying alcohol or something like that.

[ZenBeam]

@Broomstick

If I recall correctly, in Michigan it actually is a legal requirement that you card everyone for alcohol.

I don’t think this is correct. I regularly buy alcohol without being carded. The register requires the cashier to enter some date, but they don’t bother carding me. I’d expect if it were the law, they would.

[VinylTurnip]

@Thudlow_Boink

The OP made several claims that don’t match with my experience at all, to the extent that I wondered “WTF are you talking about?” several times while reading it. Especially the bit about random pedestrians being stopped and asked for ID; I’ve never even heard of that happening.

Same here. I am required to show ID when taking a domestic flight, however. The OP apparently feels it’s a good thing that nobody does in his country, but I wouldn’t particularly want that system in place here.

[grude]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/york-city-cop-imprisons-college-student-without-id-151221707.html

Note to tourists visting New York: Don’t be caught out without your ID, or you could be caught in the city’s penal system for days, if the recent experience of 21-year-old college student Samantha Zucker is anything to go by.

---

From there, she and fellow student Alex Fischer decided to stroll over to Riverside Park, to gaze out on the Hudson.

There was just one problem: The two park visitors arrived at around 3 a.m. on Oct. 22, and the park is officially closed to visitors as of 1 a.m. A police car pulled up, and the officers in it informed the two students of their trespass. Zucker and Fischer explained that they hadn’t known of the park’s curfew, and turned around to leave. By then, however, another NYPD car appeared, and the officer driving it announced he was citing them for trespassing, and demanded their IDs. Fischer produced his driver’s license and was let go–but Zucker had left her identification back at the hotel, two blocks away. She apologized, and told the officer that she could have Fischer or another friend fetch it.

But no dice. “He said it was too late for that, I should have thought of it earlier,” she told Dwyer. At that point, as Dwyer writes, the wheels of justice locked grimly into gear; Zucker was handcuffed and led into a surreal maze of detention:

For the next 36 hours, she was moved from a cell in the 26th Precinct station house on West 126th Street to central booking in Lower Manhattan and then — because one of the officers was ending his shift before Ms. Zucker could be photographed for her court appearance, and you didn’t think he was going to take the subway uptown while his partner stayed with her at booking, did you? — she was brought back to Harlem.

It’s not against the law, of course, to be out on New York’s streets without identification–but the courts can detain people without identification in jail until their arraignment in lieu of issuing them a summons.

Note that the charge was instantly dismissed by a judge, this happened in NYC.

[handsomeharry]

@grude

One cultural thing I noticed after leaving the USA is the obsession among law enforcement and the private sector for asking for ID all the damn time, seriously it is crazy how common it is in the USA. I used to get quite a kick out of saying I don’t carry ID, which can be dangerous and lead to arrest. Being a pedestrian in the USA is begging for a cop to pull over and ask you for ID, a lot of police incorrectly believe it is illegal not to have and carry ID(I have been told that by police point blank).

Cops in the USA are almost comical in their ID requests, they will literally ask random people on the street not suspected or accused of any crime for ID. If you call the police to report anything the officer will ask for your ID when they come out, if you have some guests over they will ask everyone for it. If they pull over a car for speeding they ask all passengers for ID. ID ID ID ID ID ID.

In the USA you are asked for ID in retail stores for buying random things, Walmart for example there are about a million items they sell that trigger the ID request. Weed killer, batteries, tools, knife sets, the list is enormous and most cashiers ignore it. Stores ask you to produce ID for legally age restricted items no matter how old you are, an 80 year old gets carded. I had a ton of hassles using a US passport as my ID, even being told only state ID is valid(the USA is not a state you heard it here!).

You cannot buy a domestic bus ticket or airline ticket without showing ID, for what possible reason?

All this ID showing solves nothing, the only place it makes even a speck of sense is legally age restricted items and then only for those could conceivably be underage.

You might want to trim back that list of things that require ID. None of the above products require an ID in my area.

Also, I’m wondering if you are confusing an arbitrary request for ID with a request for ID when one makes a purchase with a credit card. In that case, one does it in order to ensure, to their standards, that they will be paid for the product vended.

[grude]

@VinylTurnip

Same here. I am required to show ID when taking a domestic flight, however. The OP apparently feels it’s a good thing that nobody does in his country, but I wouldn’t particularly want that system in place here.

Can I ask why? Assuming they go through security what difference does it make?

The USA is my country BTW

[doorhinge]

@grude

…In the USA I went to visit my father in the hospital and the guard who was an off duty cop asks for ID, I said I didn’t have any and he went into the usual spiel about how that is illegal etc. A woman behind me proudly said she had one, like it was an accomplishment.

I’ll suggest that the woman behind you was pointing out how annoying you were being. But that’s just a guess on my part.

[grude]

@handsomeharry

You might want to trim back that list of things that require ID. None of the above products require an ID in my area.

Also, I’m wondering if you are confusing an arbitrary request for ID with a request for ID when one makes a purchase with a credit card. In that case, one does it in order to ensure, to their standards, that they will be paid for the product vended.

No it is a popup for age verification on the checkout, the cashier can ignore it at their discretion as it is not legally required just a store policy. Every so often the clerk will ask to see ID though, the pop up happens for an amazing variety of products.

This thread is talking about it.

http://hamradionation.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=109.0

Ok yesterday we went to Walmart to grab a few things. One of them being a tube of super glue to fix a pair of my wifes riding glasses. We use the self check out and when I scan the glue the red help light comes on and the scanner locks and waits for approval. OK fine age verification for the glue. No big deal. so the lady comes over and asks what the problem is. I proceed to explain to her that I was just jonezing for a fix and just wanted to get home so I could sniff the glue. First my wife did not find this amusing. but the other people around me thought it was funny.

So Walmart inconvenience’s us and after telling them outright that I wanted the glue to sniff… no question asked she ok’s the purchase and lets me have the glue.

What is the point of the verification if they are going to sell it to me anyway? I guess I only had to prove I was of age the fact that I want to use the glue as a drug was not their business…

Same kind of checks here in the UK knives, duct tape, glue, chidrens toys alsorts, worse shop for it is ASDA … oh yer thats wal mart UK

Uh oh there goes my theory.

[grude]

@doorhinge

I’ll suggest that the woman behind you was pointing out how annoying you were being. But that’s just a guess on my part.

I really did not have any ID on me, and I certainly wasn’t the one giving a speech.

[Hello_Again]

Being required to own government-issued Identification and produce it on demand to police or other enforcement officials is the law in lots of European countries: Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Poland, Spain… I’m sure there are others.

[Simple_Linctus]

I am 25 and cannot remember the last time I have had to show ID to buy alcohol. In fact I haven’t even been asked for ID when I was most recently pulled over by police for speeding.

I very much doubt that would be the case if I were in the US. Then again, if I were in the US I’d probably be in prison for soemthing or other by now and/or a high flying Harvard-MBA type, so…

[VinylTurnip]

@grude

The USA is my country BTW

Sorry, I misread the OP. Your questions and comments give the impression of a foreigner unfamiliar with the United States, and make even less sense if you’re actually a native.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

I’m an American, almost 50 years old, and the only time police have ever asked for my ID is when I’ve been stopped for a traffic violation.

[Jackmannii]

Aside from Trinidad being a privacy paradise, what other countries can the OP cite in which authorities/stores never ask for ID?

[Erdosain]

@Jackmannii

Aside from Trinidad being a privacy paradise, what other countries can the OP cite in which authorities/stores never ask for ID?

Don’t you understand? The OP can fly from Port of Spain to Tobago without ID! He can also fly from Tobago to Port of Spain! He can also… oh, wait, that’s about it. But what a country!