Don’t some European countries have national IDs issued to all citizens?
I actually think national ID is a great idea, I was even going to make a thread asking why it seems to be a no go in the USA. Several states are now issuing secure driver’s licenses that have much more complicated conditons that have to be met than even a US passport, none of which are related to driving and all related to establishing identity. It would be nice for the federal government to
issue ID and establish the standards as there is a need for ID.
I’m not opposed to ID, I’m not even opposed to showing your ID if it makes sense, the thread was about when it makes no sense. Using it to confirm your identity makes sense, asking to see it just to see it makes no sense and seems more like ritual.
Not sure if any of this has been said yet, I have to get to work soon and only skimmed the first third or so of the thread:
Regarding showing your ID and being signed in and out of a sizable building, this also makes sense in the event of an emergency, such as a fire. If they have a list of who has entered and left the building, the fire fighters can more effectively determine if anyone is still in the building or not (their preferred strategy for dealing with an inflamed building is very different if there is nobody inside to save). Of course, part of this assumes that people leaving the building are staying nearby, and not just going to their cars and driving home to get a stiff drink before checking in with anybody.
Some types of ID can store biometric data (fingerprints, eye/hair color, ethnicity, sometimes iris scans and the like) that you can use to check the ID against the ID holder and a stored database. If someone is wanted for a crime or not allowed in a particular area anymore, you can flag their file in the system for that. This is of course more useful somewhere like a secured facility than it is at a liquor store. That’s obviously not the same as just showing an ID to show that you have an ID card with some legit looking information and a picture of you or a guy who looks (vaguely) like you (my driver’s license photo, from when I had a lot more hair and weighed 30 pounds more, looks only passingly like me. It won’t expire until 2049. Ahh Arizona.)
That guy claiming you need ID in the UK to buy duct tape or kids toys is either mad himself, encoutered a mad staff member or is just extremely hyperbolic; yes, the sale of knives (and spray paint) is age restricted, and solvent-containing glue is not to be sold to under 18s if there’s a reason to suspect it’s being used for solvent abuse, so several shops just don’t sell it at all to under 18s (note that it can legally be sold to over 18s for sniffin’ purposes).
I’ve never been asked for ID for glue, knives or paint, and in the last few years have only been asked for ID buying alcohol once or twice by newbie staff, who are being overparanoid. Common policy is to ID up to appearance of either 21, or 25, but new staff can be waaaay out.
You do not need an ID to use a credit card here, the check is supposed to be the signature matching or PIN; nor do you need one to buy any bus or train ticket within the mainland UK (except possibly if you’re trying to get an age related discount). I do carry my driver’s license- a habit gained after working in a shop selling alcohol, and discovering how hard it really can be to work out someone’s age- but I don’t think I’ve had to show it anyone this year. You do not have to carry a driving license in the UK while driving; if asked for it, you have 7 days to find it and bring it to a police station.
I’m pretty sure I’ve stayed in B & Bs without ID, but I’ve not stayed at any for ages so can’t be sure; I don’t think most backpacker’s hostels ask for ID either, though I suspect more high falutin’ places probably do. Wouldn’t know. I’m a cheapass. Hospitals don’t ask for ID from visitors, nor was I asked for any last time I went as a patient.
So yeah, seems to me we’re not so bothered this side of the pond.
I’ve been stopped randomly while walking and asked for an ID a few times. A couple of “You’re white, what are you doing in this neighborhood” with the assumption that I was up to no good.
Also “You looked too young to be smoking cigarettes” which was… odd.
Not in the UK though. We don’t even have to carry a driving licence when we’re behind the wheel.
The last government floated the idea of an ‘optional’ ID card and were roundly criticised for it.
Yes, I don’t think I’ve ever been asked for “ID” by a policeman in the UK, even when I’ve been stopped for a minor traffic infringement. If they do want your driving licence/insurance documents/whatever then I believe they give you a form called a producer which gives you a certain amount of time to go to a police station with the necessary documents.
The only time you get asked for ID is for getting into age-restricted establishments or buying certain products, and even then it’s usually only if you look close to the age limit. (In the US, I remember seeing notices at the door of bars saying it was policy to card anyone who looked under 30!)
When I lived in Oklahoma back around the turn of the century, gas stations sometimes had a little placard showing a little old lady saying “Don’t feel bad, they carded me too!” Sometimes it’s easier (or lazier, take your pick) for management to declare a blanket policy rather than give their subordinates latitude to screw up.
I’m honest. I also do not break laws when out and about. If I were approached by a cop and asked for ID while walking I would decline to participate if I were not being arrested. I would identify myself, stating my name and address, but that’s about it.
BTW, the situation has never come up.
When I lived in Virginia, I worked in a shop that sold local wines and other local products (honey, jam, etc). In Virginia if an employee of a business sells alcohol to an underage buyer, they fine the employee who did the sale, up to $2500 and they can even charge the employee with a misdemeanor. Sometimes people would get all huffy when I carded them for wine, but it’s not worth eight weeks of my pay and a CRIMINAL RECORD for them to not feel huffy.
They also fine the business, but the maximum fine against the business is actually smaller (up to 2,000) than it is against the employee who did the sale.
Over the last 8 years, my husband has been in 3 different hospitals in 3 different counties for 3 different surgeries. I never had to show ID to visit him. In one, I had to sign a log and wear a visitor badge. In another, I was supposed to do that as I found out later, but the first time I visited him, I had no badge and no problems. The other hospital didn’t require anything as I recall, altho it has been quite a while, so I’ve probably just forgotten.
When I buy alcohol, no one makes the pretense of carding me and I don’t pretend to get all offended that they don’t take me for under 21 - I may not look 58, but I know I don’t look under 40…
When my husband was stopped for speeding, he had to show his license, but the officer wasn’t interested in who I was. Nor have I ever been randomly stopped and asked for ID. And I don’t think I’ve ever shown ID when checking into a hotel or motel, except when getting the government rate. On a few occasions when using my credit card in a retail establishment, I’ve been asked for ID to verify it’s my VISA, but there are also stores where I don’t even sign the receipt if the purchase is under a certain amount, let alone prove it’s my card.
I worked my entire career on military bases, and even when they required ID to drive thru the gate, it was rare that the guard ever even looked at my ID card, let alone confirmed it was *my *ID. I don’t know where the OP goes, but I guess I’ve never been there.
Hell, the entire weekend went by and I showed my Id to exactly no one. Come to think of it I haven’t showed it to anyone for the entire month of August!
I just want to note that this is not true at all in my recent (US) experience.
I can’t even remember for sure the last time I showed ID for a card purchase, other than for alcohol (which I only have to do at state liquor stores, not private beer/wine stores). Many retail locations these days have card-swipe machines placed so that customers can complete the transaction without the cashier touching or really seeing the card at all. Even when I hand the card over, nobody in recent memory has asked for an ID to confirm, not even when the credit card has in fact belonged to somebody else, with a different-gendered name (I was making authorized purchases for somebody else and was prepared to explain, but the question never came up).
My stepdaughter is white; my wife (who is not her mother) looks white. Both have been stopped by police while jogging walking or jogging in our former neighborhood. In both cases I think the officers in question suspected (or pretended to suspect) that they were hookers.
This is not a universal phenomenon in the USA. I can buy just about anything in any store with cash without being asked for ID. Every time (there have only been a handful of times in my entire life) I have been in a car stopped by police for any reason, only the driver was asked for ID, their drivers license, which is legally required to be carried to drive. I’ve never been asked for ID by police when on foot. I’ve lived all over the eastern half of the USA (Kentucky, Massachusetts, Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Minnesota) for all 45 years of my life.
My husband has been stopped while on foot, and asked for ID by police, several times. Most of the times it has been either because someone called the police and described someone like him as threatening (he had a gang of kids who had it in for him for a couple years when we lived in the Boston area and they were the ones doing this to hassle him) or because he actually resembled someone on the wanted list (when we lived in Ohio) and they wanted to ascertain whether he was the guy (he wasn’t).
This has nothing to do with any requirement to carry ID or obsession by the authorities with requiring ID. In NY, the police can handle certain crimes/violations (most commonly trespass, theft of services and possessing an open containers of alcohol) by issuing a desk appearance ticket- but only if the person has ID. A ticket can’t be issued if the person has no ID- it would be too easy for them to give a fake name, address, etc. Instead , they get fingerprinted and brought to court. The individual officer might have been an ass, but it’s not like Zucker was arrested for not having ID. She was arrested for trespassing - which she was.
Oh, and the dismissal doesn’t really mean anything- her time served exceeded any sentence she might have been given, so continuing the case would have served no purpose for anyone.
Let’s see- when have I been asked for regular ID? To buy alcohol, to use my casino comps and I’ve been asked for my driver’s license at the occasional DUI checkpoint. I’ve had to provide my employer’s ID in all sorts of places I visit as part of my job. Most of them write down my name and give me a sticker. They don’t take my name in case there is a shooting, although I’m sure it would be helpful. They take my name for the same reason my office has lists of visitors- so we know who is in the building in case of emergency.
In the USA:
My understanding is that when queried by a cop you are legally required to identify yourself, but you are not legally required to produce ID.
When you are behind the wheel of a motor vehicle during a traffic stop, you don’t get asked for ID, you get asked for a valid driver license, i.e. a state-issued document that indicates you are qualified and authorized to operate a motor vehicle. Passengers may be asked for ID, but as in the previous paragraph, they are not legally required to produce it.
In any encounter with the police, you have the right to remain silent - even before they remind you of that right. You don’t have to tell him where you are going, what you are doing out this late, or anything else besides your name.
That’s the wonderful ideal. The reality is that if you choose to assert these rights, you may end up with an idiot cop (or a vindictive one) who will do his best to make your life a pain in the ass. This guy was arrested for refusing to show ID (which he had in his possession at the time). He knew full well that the outcome was going to be a hassle for him, and he was prepared to follow through with legal action against the city until it all started to become a burden on his family, at which point he had to back down and settle for just having the charges against him dropped.
Same. And cops sure DO ask for ID of all the passengers in a vehicle when a vehicle is stopped. Maybe not every time, but I’ve had it happen, and seen it happen, many many times. One time was hilarious, as I didn’t even know why the cop stopped me <he never gave a reason> and when he pulled out my passenger and had him do a drunk-test…at 3 in the afternoon…with no reason to suspect anything…I don’t know what that guy was doing or why he stopped us, but he wasted a lot of time for nothing. And I used to be asked for ID a lot, 'cause I like being out at night, just walking around. I guess that’s considered ‘weird.’ Hey, it’s not loitering if I’m moving, bub.
One reason they might ask for ID from the passengers is if they suspect underage drinking*. Also, I don’t think there are any federal laws concerning checking IDs in cars or with passengers for traffic stops (barring someone trying to drive onto a secured Federal installation, such as a military base), so that would vary by state, county, and city.
That said, aside from two instances of me speeding, one instance of an expired inspection sticker, and one instance of having a tail-light out, I’ve never been stopped by a cop while driving aside from going onto base.
Edited to add: * Of course, it’s always possible that some cop is on a power trip.