There was an article saying that for security reasons the UK government is thinking issuing IDs. There were many people saying that this is an intrusion to their personal lifes, blah, blah, blah.
I don’t see any problem with IDs. In Greece we do have a National ID. It contains more-or-less the same information as a passport or a driving license. In most cases, these three forms of ID can be used interchangeably.
Why people are OK with a driver’s license, but they disagree to a national ID?
I put up with in in school (I understand that), and work (I understand that too), but why a national ID? I can see it being optional, and then mandatory. Then if you’re not wearing it, you get fined. Police state mandated, the moon turns red, you know the rest.
A driving licence has a very specific function, and can only be demanded in conjunction with driving issues - and it’s also optional, because you can choose not to drive.
Some of the objections to national ID cards:
Expense.
Possibility of fraud - just think how much they would be worth on the black market. Of course, the UK govt claim they’ll develop un-forgeable technology. :dubious:
Misuse - particularly in discrimination against minorities. Already there is massive antagonism between some groups, particularly Muslims, about over-use of the stop-and-search powers of the police. This would only be exacerbated with ID cards.
They won’t do anything. They’re not going to have “Occupation: Terrorist” printed on them. They’re not going to stop illegal employment of immigrants any more than current requirements do - anybody using illegal employment is hardly going to be checking ID cards.
The Greek Government has been doing it for decades. If it was so expensive, they would have stopped doing it by now.
In Greece, the ID is just a laminated piece of paper with a couple of official seals. It can be very easily forged. In case something important has happened (accident, suspected fraud, etc.) they won’t rely solely on the ID for identification.
Also, there aren’t many things you can do with a stolen/forged ID, so I don’t think they have any value in the black market.
I am not aware of this problem. Could you elaborate on that?
Agreed. It has certainly not helped to curb crime in Greece at all.
Also, what type of information is going to be included there?
Implimenting the scheme from scratch would be the expensive stage. The Home Office’s own estimate is several £bn.
So it’s pretty much useless, then?
Identity fraud is a fast growing money-earner for organised criminals. And it’d be worth easily as much as forged passports (which is a fair bit).
Just an example: BBC News | UK POLITICS | Police attack stop and search plans
They’re talking about fingerprints, retina scans, etc.
Ack, sorry, I meant to give you this link.
Exactly. it is useless, doesn’t do what they say it will, and brings back very unpleasant memories of “Where are your papers?”
If they ever become mandatory, I’m listing my religion as “Juden.” 
It leads to Big Brother.
Incidentally, a good way to keep it from being stolen is to have it microchipped in your had which leads to the mark of the beast.
No, I am not being funny.
I’ve never gotten that either. Drivers licenses and social security numbers are already national IDs (well, licenses may just be state IDs). Hell, i have about 12 IDs in my wallet including grocery IDs, School IDs, Library IDs, video store IDs, etc. No skin off my ass.
I carry a drivers license, passport and military id anywhere I go. Having a national ID is no big deal.
All they would need to do is merge all the state’s DMV databases and 99% of the information they need is there. What is the big whoop? There is WAY more personal stuff on my miltary ID…I have my husbands service details, and my clearance details encrypted on it.
I would personally love to have an all in one ID serve as passport, generic ID, drivers license and military ID in one packet. Only problem is they would have to resize the passport to fit in an average wallet. [passports need places to stamp entry/exit visas]
I just wanted to mention that I carry a mandatory ID card since I was 16. I know this is a matter of tradition, but believe me, if you are used to it, it doesn’t bother you at all. We all have to use some form of ID on many occasions, the only difference is that here everyone in the country uses the exact same card. It lists exactly three items that my (european) drivers license doesn’t: My current address and the fact that I am 185 cm tall* and have gray-green eyes. It is just that traditonally nobody here will care for your drivers’ license any more than for your fishing license unless you are sitting in a car.
I also don’t understand the objections to a national ID. As long as it is only being used in all the situations in which people already have to provide some personal information, what would the difference be? Using a credit card, buying an airline ticket, applying for a job - I don’t see a difference.
As for “where are your papers,” what proposals are there that would require a national ID to be shown in circumstances where we don’t now have to provide some form of identification? Are people suggesting that an ID would be required for interstate travel?
As in all proposed government schemes, there are important questions which must be asked:
[ul][li]What purpose would be served by implementation of this scheme?[/li][li]What benefit would be received by the citizenry if this scheme is implemented?[/li][li]How much would this scheme cost?[/li][li]Would the implementation of this scheme actually fulfill the goals that the proponents are claiming?[/li][li]What are the drawbacks to such a scheme?[/ul][/li]
When it comes to national IDs, the answers seem to be pretty clear.
[ul][li]The purpose: None in particular, since the information on a national ID can be ascertained via other documents which most of the popuation has and carries with them most of the time. Unless carrying the ID on one’s person becomes mandatory under law and police are given the ability to stop people simply to ensure that they have their IDs with them, how is a national ID any better than a driver’s license or a school ID which can currently be left sitting at home without penalty?[/li][li]Benefit to the citizens: None in particular. A national ID would not make anyone more safe. It would not prevent crime or terrorism nor would not prevent illegal immigration.[/li][li]Cost: As indicated, billions.[/li][li]Would this scheme fulfill the goals claimed: If the goal is simply to ensure that every citizen is duly noted in a national government database, yes. If there are other goals being touted, no.[/li][li]Drawbacks: The cost, better used for plans and services which actually benefit the citizenry. An increase in identity theft and fraud and the financial, manpower and emotional consequences of same. An increase in forgery and black market trafficking which simultaneously enables and exploits criminals and illegal immigrants. The risk of the “where are your papers?” scenario. The risk of exploitation and misuse of the database and/or information within by outside sources (malicious or otherwise) or corrupt officials.[/ul][/li]
So, what are the justifications for this idea, again?
The concern is of ‘function creep’: that once the ID is in place, progressive changes could be made to its use, to situations where it could be demanded, etc. I’ve already mentioned the issues of ‘stop and search’ police procedures - minorities are already being unduly subjected to scrutiny, and the ‘where are your papers’ attitude would give a racist police force further power to discriminate.
If they’re that useful to the government, they probably lend themselves to abuse. If they’re useless enough to forbid any real abuse, then they’re probably so useless as to not make them worth having.
In the United States (at least in the 6 or 7 states I have lived in) a driver’s license is optional, but you must have a state ID card if you don’t have a driver’s license. Essentially, they are they same thing except a driver’s license permits you to drive, too.
I don’t see a lot of difference between a state ID card and a national ID card, except that a national ID card would make inter-sate crime easier to track.
As for it bringing back memories of “Papers, please!” We already have that: Any cop can demand (with cause) to see your state ID. What’s the diff?
Your driver’s license or state ID, is basically already a national ID card. It’s not like everything goes to hell inna handbasket when someone moves from Kentucky to Florida.
They type in the number and they know who you are. There’s already a national database, in essence. It’s my understand that the databases are linked and information travels fine in most areas. Now, if you’re from South Dakota or something, then you may have trouble.
But if you want a real answer to your question, see Vanilla’s post. Christians would lose their minds. This is because they don’t read the bible or understand the words in it, but still 
This is news to me. We have non-driver ID cards in Washington, but they’re optional. You’ll have trouble buying liquor or paying with a check if you don’t have a state issued ID, but not everyone needs to do those things.
I’ve no issue with ID cards, since we have these over here, and I’m perfectly acccustomed to them. On the other hand, I wouldn’t want anything with my fingerprints or my retina scan. I absolutely refuse that some database would store informations which would allow to perfectly identify me at all times.
There’s a lot of people over here pushing for the storage of ADN signature of essentially anybody who would be remotely related to any crime or delict (and even in some people’s minds, of absolutely everybody), and I’m strongly opposed to this for the same reason. I just don’t want such information to be stored. Who knows who could have access to this info, how they would use it and to what purpose at some point in the future.
I want to be able to avoid being identified if I chose to. They aren’t after me today, but perhaps tomorrow they will…
But an ID per se doesn’t entail the same risks. It’s not different from a passport, or driving license, as already mentionned. You can not have one, burn it, buy a fake one, whatever. There’s no way you can get rid of your ADN or use fake ADN, and concerning fingerprints and retina scans, the actions needed to suppress them are a little too drastic for me.
Which states are these that require that you have a state id card? The states I know about offer a state ID card - but it’s for the ID carrier’s benefit and convenience, and if you don’t want one, you certainly don’t need to have one.