What is your opinion of the Advanced Placement (AP) Program?

[DSeid]

@2ManyTacos

… Ultimately, I view education ENTIRELY as a means to an end; plain and simple, full stop, that is all that school is to me. …

And that is a valid POV to have. Among my kids, neices, and nephews, there are some who have that perspective and some who are honestly driven by the joy of learning (moreso once in college than in High School). And I do not think that either approach has a lock on achieving the ends, whatever they may be, including being happy and content in life.

The issue then becomes - what is the end you are hoping to achieve?

Is it the perspective of a High Schooler who wants to get into the most competitive school possible? Be that for future employment concerns or for ego.

The perspective of the High Schooler who wants to be able to succeed in a challenging college environment and is more concerned about the skills than whether or not that school is the biggest name possible? Whether for love of learning or for future career concerns.

Someone thinking of how it prepares them for the rest of life?

Someone who wants to get just enough education to get a degree that allows them to get a job that they can put a minimal effort in but get them enough to get by on so they can do other things in their life?

For all but the last Manda JO’s advice is the probably best means the end: take the hardest challenge you can reasonably expect to handle, take on as much rigor as you can deal with, and you will definitely be as prepared as possible to achieve in a college environment. An AP class may be that option for some. More than one for others. None for others yet.

Avoiding the AP class because it is a bit less sure of an A probably won’t help much for the first, will for sure not help for the skill building for college or for the rest of life. But it will fit well for someone who wants to get by on the least effort possible and who is not particularly intellectually curious. Of course sucks to be that person when the desired end changes.

My one caveat to this is that the curriculum in an AP class is constrained by having to teach to the test. There is something to be said for an honors class that can vary from script depending on the teacher and the specifics.

[Hellestal]

Starting with the last sentence first:

@Mr.Nylock

I only said your post was a little harsh, not a lot harsh maybe 2 on a harsh scale of10.

A 2 on your scale of 10 is clearly enough justification for you to make a comment about it. Which is fine.

But when you make a comment about something, it will tend to prompt a response. You get that, right? Saying it was “maybe 2” doesn’t change the fact that you brought it up, and the fact you brought it up means you probably think it warrants response. So it will get a response. Not bringing up a 2 is the way to guarantee no one discusses an issue as trifling as a 2.

Point being: If you start sneezing when a cat walks in front of you, I’m going to give you a tissue. If you say you’re just a lil’ allergic, I’m still going to give you a tissue.

@Mr.Nylock

Check out post #54, I think that should meet the criteria.

Okay?

I see that comment clearly embedded in a context where she has offered other evidence. Maybe I’m misreading that, but I’m fine with misreading that. See below.

@Mr.Nylock

Call me plum mold crazy, but when you mention that she complimented your posts and you trust her judgement that could possibly introduce some bias into your analysis of the situation here.

Of course it could.

That would potentially be a really important thing if I’d offered some detailed analysis of the situation here. But I haven’t.

What I said was simple and true: anecdotes are often worse than no data at all. I stand completely by that comment. It remains true for all the reasons I laid out. It applies generally. It applies to Manda JO and it applies to you and it applies to me. And most important for me staying on topic in the thread, it applies to the post I was responding to. Now it’s completely possible that I glossed over her posts because she gave me a compliment so long ago I can’t even remember exactly when it was. I had to look it up: October 2012 was when we discussed loanable funds. That’s just a few posts in a single thread, and I think that was our largest interaction ever. I’m not sure we’ve talked about anything at all since. I’m willing to accept the possibility that under my ruggedly handsome exterior I have an ego so shallow that I’m springing to someone’s defense because, shucks, she done said somethin nice to me two years ago. kicks dirt Maybe I really am like that.

But all I said was something true that applied generally. Yes, I only hit the quote button once. Yes, I responded to the person I don’t know instead of the person with over 8,000 posts who’s been here since 1999. Yes, if I had really really been straining at my monitor I could’ve found a different place to push the quote button.

But who cares? Seriously? It was relevant in that context, so I posted it.

I don’t use smileys often. I threw it in up there because I was like, hey, this is no big deal. Ain’t no thing. But I see that my response triggered another response. I went and registered at least a 2 again on your personal Richter scale, and anything above a 2 brings out the sniffles. So in order to head off your very logical criticisms – and they are logical, I’m not denying that – I’m responding again. Why did I post? I’ve got a swirling mass of nonsense in my head in various stages of incoherence. The inchoate stirrings of a primitive idea eventually start to take form and solidify. Eventually, they’ve attained enough shape that I might want to talk about them. And then, reading a post might prompt them to dance down the nerves from my brain to my fingers where they find some semblance of real existence on the screen.

And that is what happened. It’s all that happened. I saw a chance to make an on-topic comment on a general thing I’d been thinking about, and I took it. For reasons I still don’t quite understand, there was some resonance from you. The dirt shifted a bit underground. But if it had pegged a 1.5 instead of a 2.0 and you had ignored it, then that would’ve been my only post in this thread. There was no “analysis of the situation”. I had a chance to say a true thing that had been floating in my head, which was fully relevant in context, and I took it. (And actually, I think I’m stealing this one from somebody else on the SDMB, but I don’t know who. I’ve searched and turned up empty. But still, it doesn’t feel like it’s “mine”.)

I threw a smiley at you to let you know it was no big deal, but then you jumped back with OMGBIAS. (That is an exaggeration for humorous effect. I don’t need to know how serious the suggestion was. No scale is necessary.) So now I am explaining more clearly, and as literally as I can manage within the lolcat jokes, so that there are no further misunderstandings.

@Mr.Nylock

Just because there is not a hotlink post to what Macca is saying doesn’t mean there is nothing more substantial to what she is saying either - it would appear that you are applying one level of analysis to one poster and a different level to another.

I hope you understand now how this is a bit silly.

There was no analysis. There was merely one true statement, backed up with several reasons why it was true, in a context where it was appropriate. Maybe not the only context where it was appropriate, but at least one obvious place where it was.

This isn’t a game of football. We’re not wearing jerseys. When I point out to one person that we’re usually much better off using studies than anecdotes, that does not mean I think we should suddenly ignore what I said for another person. I guess it’s possible that I hit quote for one poster and not the other out of some sort of bias, but since my comment isn’t about any specific argument in this thread, the bias is utterly irrelevant. I’m highly sympathetic to the idea that people should work hard for whatever they do, should stretch themselves, and of course there’s no way for me to divorce myself from my sympathies so completely that I become perfectly impartial. That’s life.

If something is true, don’t worry if it’s on the wrong shelf. Just make your own case, and forget the 2s.

[MandaJo]

That loanable funds thread was awesome. I had forgotten how awesome.

[Mr.Nylock]

@Hellestal

I’ve got a swirling mass of nonsense in my head in various stages of incoherence. The inchoate stirrings of a primitive idea eventually start to take form and solidify. Eventually, they’ve attained enough shape that I might want to talk about them. And then, reading a post might prompt them to dance down the nerves from my brain to my fingers where they find some semblance of real existence on the screen. .

You haven’t been reading a lot of Allen Ginsberg lately have you? Anyway, I can relate to that, maybe that’s why I post, I don’t really know. I wasn’t trying to be super serious as this is the IMHO section. I’ve got no dog in this fight, I mostly am interested in the AP discussion just to be a little more informed for when I have children (and Manda Jo does seem to have extensive knowledge of the subject). I was not intending to be debateful, I’m glad the thread kept going, I found it to be an interesting discussion. I don’t believe you were being rude or out of line with Macca in some sort of inappropriate way - but the forcefulness of your disagreement I thought worth hinting at. Actually I agree strongly that too often anecdotal information is highly misleading.

[OurLordPeace]

@monstro

2. If kids are having miserable experiences in school, something is wrong. Maybe they are taking way too many AP classes or trying to juggle too many extracurriculars. But I don’t know if that’s the fault of the AP classes, per se. Hyper-competition has always been a problem in schools. I remember girls having nervous breakdowns whenever we had chair auditions in my HS orchestra. I’m talking about collapsing on the floor, sobbing and screaming nervous breakdowns. The majority of us managed to not break under this manufactured pressure. Maybe because we realized early on that it was all bullshit in the grand scheme of things. We didn’t have anyone at home telling us that if we didn’t get to be concert master, we wouldn’t be able to get into Julliard or Oberlin and we’d thus be destined for lives of mediocrity.

Were they terrified of disappointing their Tiger Mothers?