This thread is actually a pretty good indication of why I don’t join up. 
Not beforehand, no. Rather more sadly, what was stated was that the plagiarist had been just about to get a Laurel, and that had to be canceled. (Whether there still exists an unpresented scroll, or it was destroyed, or “palimpsested” for someone else, I have no idea.) Had the discovery been delayed longer, as I said before, there would have been the issue of an already given Laurel to deal with.
Had everyone been much more discreet and hushed up the detail that this person had ever been considered, then this conversation would never have taken place. But I suppose by that point too many people were involved. An entire Order had voted, the Royalty had consented, a calligrapher had done a scroll, a herald had amended the agenda, etc…
I know it’s squashed any marginal interest I might have had, too.
One of the traits I admire in people is the capacity for moral outrage when they see, for instance, the strong bully the weak for their lunch change – not something the strong need, but take because they can, and because they want whatever the other person has. I admire the people who speak up at that point, and won’t shut up until others listen and something’s going to be done.
Then there are the people who say “So what?” and don’t simply turn away and quietly do nothing themselves, but firmly, persistently argue that nothing should be done. These are the people I don’t comprehend. Whatever their motives or ideals may be, the direction of their arguments is to enable the bullying to go on as ever before.
Ghod, I hate politics…but I’m willing to dip a toe in and visit the local group to see how friendly they are. I think I’ll try out a 15th century Maltese persona this time around-the name “Jaymus Calleya” should pass muster.
[tune: The Yellow Rose of Texas]
"Oh, we are the MidRealm Laurels, and there’s been a lot of fuss
Over how our rules define who is and isn’t one of us.
Our Charter says we honour just the brightest and the best,
But WE decide what THAT means, and – well – you can guess the rest.
"Gwynfreya of Caer Anterth has done artwork by the ton,
And we’ve given out two Laurels for the contests that she’s won.
What if neither of them went to her? No cause for you to cuss:
She’s creative but not cute – that’s why she ISN’T one of us!
"Now, Fey began a Pages’ School, a MidRealm-wide affair,
And wrote a Handbook for the School, to train kids everywhere.
But when it was reprinted, for S.C.A.-wide fame,
It did not say ‘By Lady Fey’ – it bore another’s name.
"A wench from far-off An Tir had submitted to the West,
Fey’s text and illustrations, retraced and readdressed.
We’ve given Laurels for such work – the wench sought the award;
It took a threat of suit to get Fey’s credit-line restored.
"The wench from far-off An Tir has left the S.C.A.;
She never got the Laurel – but nor did Lady Fey.
And if you ask our Order why we left her out, we’ll go:
‘Why, Fey is too inclined to sue – political, y’know!’ *
"You can take that basic plot, and multiply by all the years
The MidRealm has subsisted on the blood and sweat and tears
Of the artisans and craftsmen who believe in our mystique;
But the Order of the Laurel goes to members of our clique!
"It’s just the same old con game, dressed up in ermine pelts:
The work went to the suckers, the award to someone else;
It isn’t worth a penny, so the marks gave up and left,
But if credit were worth money, we would be in jail for theft!
"We make it hard to join us for those plain hard-working fools,
But it’s really very easy if you understand the rules:
Be the crony of a member, or the crony of a King,
You can join our noble Order if you’ve never done a thing!
“We have an honour system, just like the MidRealm Knights,
And that’s enough to tell you how we always win the fights:
Let one hand wash the other, we have no outside review;
Just ignore my breach of ethics, and I’ll do the same for you!”
(Now that’s the seamy story, let it put you on your guard:
You can search for golden glory in a play-pretend award;
But I lay it out before you, oh my Masters, Queens, and Kings –
Like a nettle crossed with kudzu, how the Laurel spreads and stings!)
———————————————————————————————————————————————
(With my thanks to all those Laurels who made writing this song so very easy.
Small though their proportion in the nationwide membership of Laurels, and few
though their numbers may be, they have made the MK’s Order what it is today.)
———————————————————————————————————————————————
- Alternate justification: that this did not qualify as an art or science.
Researching articles, writing poems or songs, and teaching a guild one art
have qualified. Researching and writing an entire handbook as part of a school
teaching all S.C.A. children how to fill useful roles in the Society – does not?
Does one person having issues with something that happened* 30 years ago* in one regional dept and in one small subset of that regional group mean the whole org is tainted?
But it’s not just something that happened decades ago in one place - when I talk to SCA people about what they do, politics and long-held grudges and dirty dealings is the kind of stuff that always comes up. As someone who got into RPGs at 10 the SCA should hold pretty strong appeal for me, but every time I’ve talked to people about the society I get really turned off. I don’t really have any desire spend a lot of time and effort just for the chance to kiss the buttocks of some ‘peer’ who’s been in it forever and plays games with the bylaws to mess with people.
What about the fact that two Kingdom Great Officers of recent or current standing seem not to have any issues with it, in fact seem to wish all such topics be kept swept under the carpet?
What assurance would any new or current member have that such an wrong against herself/himself would be properly remedied vs. likewise swept under the carpet – i.e. that they would not be treated just like Gwynfreya or Feilimidh?
Apparently I’m not supposed to feel a wrong was wrong, 30 years later. Exactly how much time makes a wrong right? If a newcomer or current member is abused today, will you be morally outraged about it for five years, and then stop? Or ten years, and then stop? What is the expiration date on your sense of justice, sir?
[“In one regional dept” = Pennsic Pentathlon, at the War of two Kingdoms? Please note, there were not “20 Kingdoms” then.]
No, of course not - but the fact that people can argue about this minor thing for pages and pages is not unfamiliar. SCA is full of rules-lawyers and people who absolutely insist that you follow their rules. So is much of role playing. I clearly remember going into a fantasy shop. I went to pick up paints for my figurines, because I enjoyed painting them, and someone casually asked me what kind of figurines I had. I answered, and another person, who hadn’t been in the first conversation at all, loudly spoke up and told me that “Those aren’t the right kinds of paints for the game you play with those figurines,” very pedantic.
WTF? There is a specific kind of paint you have to use if you want to play with them? And do I really care? I just want to paint my fecking figurines, and this paint works well with metal miniatures, and you weren’t even part of the conversation, Mr. Rules Lawyer, so BUTT OUT.
Anyway. If you’re not in charge, you don’t set the rules. The people who are most invested, get in charge, and they set the rules. And part of the rules they set are always limiting who can be in charge.
Sure. But as has been said and verified- other groups like Scouting are even worse.
Unless you really want a Laurel, then you can play all you want and never kiss any ass in that regards.
Fight, drink, sing, party, dance, enter competitions, make things, volunteer, flirt, dress up- all without butt kissing.
But as with any other group-* if you want go into politics*- you will have to either kiss butt or take the long slow road. That’s just Life.
Especially if you know they got to the top of the heap by stepping on harder-working people, and kicking them in the faces for their trouble… and now do the same for sheer amusement. “Oh, but it’s ‘in period’!”
I think they must have watched Monty Python’s version of the Middle Ages far too much.
Oh, this outdoes Jane Elliot’s “But other groups do it too!”
Go ahead and rob banks. When hauled into court, plead:
“Other people rob banks too! Other people rob banks even worse!”
The judge and/or jury will doubtless be stunned by this compelling argument and set you free.
That, and the numerous people who keep responding to the crazy, trying to refute it, because they can’t just accept that it IS crazy, and move on.
All the point-by-point posts declaiming some hearsay offense from 30 years ago only merits an eyeroll. It’s the unending responses because SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET that provoke an “ugh” response from me.
Frankly, you’ve made the SCA look about as appealing as spending time in the comments section on YouTube.
Now THAT might have been an effective dismissal! If not surrounded by too many other arguments making it clear the events actually took place, like:
Whoops! I didn’t mention the dates! So unless they actually took place, how did anyone look them up to call them old? Suddenly not so hearsay anymore.
Enough. Anyone who wishes to continue to discuss the plagiarism issue, please start another thread. I get that it has tangential relevance to the question in the OP, but at this point, the thread has become more about snarking at one another.
Drop it.
You have to admit, this level of vitriol over something that happened to someone else several decades ago is not precisely painting a welcoming or attractive portrait of the organization, you know?
Not only that, but the whole tenor of what was quite likely an epic thread derailment (not just Raven there’s sort of baffling incandescent rage, but the responses as well) sort of smacks of the nth replay of a pretty common argument. Being the sort of person who gets into my dorky hobbies, decisions about how to spend my precious time (and other resources) are pretty heavily influenced by how people talk about their hobby in discussions just like this one - and this discussion isn’t painting an attractive or inviting picture.
What about the costs, membership and otherwise? How far can you get if you are rich in knowledge and enthusiasm, but poor in funds?
Membership is optional. $45 a year if you wish. Events cost anywhere from free to $25. (a few, Like Pennsic, which is over two weeks are quite a bit more). Of course, you can spend a lot on clothing, armor and the like- if you want.
The existence of worse hobbies is not a valid argument in favor of adopting a particular hobby. The fact that ‘you should try the SCA’ discussions tend to turn into ‘it’s not as bad as this other thing you also don’t do’ really says a lot. There’s always interpersonal conflict when you have humans in a group, but from what I’ve seen the SCA nourishes and cherishes them.
So if I don’t want a Laurel, I don’t have to call anyone ‘sir’ or ‘lord’ or do any bowing and scraping to some baron or count or whatnot? That’s not what I’ve heard at all, and my impression is that a lot of the people who are most active in politics are like the people who try to get people to call them ‘doctor’ at parties.
And from what I hear, the politics infects EVERY SINGLE THING you do in the SCA. Who can enter contests, who can win contests, what you’re allowed to do, whether you have to follow rules or not. Long-held grudges, rules-lawyering, and interpersonal conflicts are the main thing I hear about from people who enjoy being in the organization. So since I don’t want to go into politics, best to avoid the whole shebang.