Browning Hi-Power 9mm or Walther PP .380.
I carry a Walther PPK in .380. This is because that is what I wanted (due to my James Bond fascination), that is what I have, and I really don’t need to swap out anytime soon.
As said before:
Small, flat form is easy to conceal.
.380 is a nice stopping power round in a small package
Downside:
- beats the hell out of you when practicing. There is nothing protecting you from the power of the shot. If you have “soft hands” - you will be bleeding from the webbing between thumb and finger after a few rounds. It only hurts me, but for some friends it is a problem.
If I were buying again, I like the shielded hammer snub-nosed revolvers you can get. Those are nice, and leave little to break, jam, catch on a jacket lining, etc.
I once owned a Browning 9mm. It had a double width magazine which meant it had a capcity of approx 16 shots (I forget exactly). But it had the strongest recoil I have ever experienced and that includes a .44 Magnum. I shot it about ten times and promptly returned it. I hated it. The recoil was killer.
Now, this was circa 1980 and they may have fixed that recoil or it may not be the same gun that you have listed.
I hope you won’t mind my asking, but, do you know how strong the recoil is for that weapon? How much experience have you had in shooting it?
I will not carry a .380 for the reasons mentioned by Algher… training with it is a horrible experience. Stings like hell. I won’t carry a handgun that’s not enjoyable to shoot.
9 mm is the perfect balance, IMO. It’s economical to train with, pleasant to shoot, can be fitted into hi cap mags, and has adequate “stopping power.”
Here is a link to the Browning Hi-Power 9mm.
The term “High Power” refers to the fact that it has a 13 shot magazine capacity which this article claims make it ideal for use as a military weapon.
But, it is single action and I seem to have a strong recollection that my gun was a double action and so I don’t really know what is going on.
In any event, I have to wonder about using a single action weapon as a concealed weapon because, I believe, you would either have to walk around with a round in the chamber which is very dangerous and most people would strongly advise against that.
Or …
You would have to pull out the weapon and pull back the slide to load it and then fire it and I would think you would want to be able to pull out your concealed weapon and load it and fire it quickly.
That is why IMO, a double action semi-automatic pistol is preferrable as a concealed weapon (to a single action). Because you just pull it out and pull the trigger to fire it. Much preferrable to a single action weapon. At least, I hope that I’m correct about that. I have never owned a single action handgun - not a revolver nor a semi-auto. However, I still think a revolver is the best kind of concealed weapon.
Revolvers can jam. It’s rare but it can happen, and usually fixing that malfunction is a lot harder than a tap/rack/bang or SPORTS drill. I wouldn’t call .22 Magnum “hugely deadly”, but then no handgun used for CCW is going to be. 6 out of 7 of all people shot with a handgun live. IIRC, 2 out of 3 shot by a centerfire rifle, don’t. Though, as the writer at that link notes, “Every time I see one of these types of scientific videos where they talk about wounds, I realize how bad I never want to be shot.”
Hollywood lies. A lot. In any event bullets fired from rifles, with their corresponding longer barrels, can have dramatically different effects than the same bullet fired out of a handgun. See Ballistics By The Inch for chronograph data illustrating this point. The .22 WMR, fired from an 18 inch barrel, is moving along at 1850-2000 feet per second. Out of a 2 inch derringer? 850-900 feet per second. That makes a difference. Here’s another chart from brassfetcher how velocity for that cartridge really depends on barrel length.
Hollow points are used in handguns for two reasons. Handguns kill by disrupting central nervous system activity or by exsanguination. (at page 4 of the .pdf) Their effectiveness is proportional to the size of the permanent wound cavity they generate in their target. Hollow points make a wider hole, ergo a larger permanent wound cavity is created. Wider isn’t everything though. They still have to reach the vital organs of the target. Twelve inches in ballistic gelatin is the desired amount of penetration that gets bandied about by people like the FBI. The thought is that, even if the target has limbs in the path of the bullet, is wearing heavy clothing, or is at an oblique angle to the bullet, twelve inches still provides enough penetration to reach vital areas within the torso.
The second reason why hollow points are used is they will penetrate less than non-expanding bullets, all else remaining equal. Less penetration means less of a chance that the bullet will go through the desired target and hit something you don’t want hit.
Still, the differences between the various 9mm through .45 ACP aren’t really that noticable, IMHO. (Note, I didn’t include .22 WMR. See this brassfetcher synopsis for why.) For the Federal HST line I mentioned earlier, they claim for their 147 grain 9mm bullet that it will penetrate 12.0 inches and expand to 0.850 inches (which seems incredible to me, other sources mention typical expansion of ~.65 inch) The 230 grain .45 ACP bullet will also go 12 inches, and expand to 0.98 inches. Even for the biggest differences, who’s going to notice a third of an inch wider hole? Have a look at this gel composite. Don’t they all look pretty much alike?
Agree with this, except with the “hitting them anywhere stops them” and the implication that handgun ammo is devastating.
A few other points that I wasn’t able to quote directly. The Browning Hi-Power, like his previous design, the 1911, is a single-action only pistol. And like the 1911, it’s meant to be carried with a loaded magazine in the pistol, a cartridge loaded in the chamber, the hammer back, and the safety engaged: “cocked and locked.” The thought, and I agree with it, is that in a defensive gun use, one won’t have the time or space to rack the slide and load the gun. Accordingly, using a SAO pistol requires training to get the shooter to where flicking off the safety when the sights are on target is a natural motion. The reward for this added step to remember is that SAO pistols often have very light, crisp triggers, and are therefore much easier to shoot accurately than the triggers on a double-action revolver.
Crafter Man, that Kahr P380 I mentioned above wasn’t that unpleasant, especially with aHandAll Jr on it. It’s also not a direct blowback like the PPK, which I’m sure sops up some of the recoil. I expect the new Glock 42 I mentioned to be similarly soft-shooting. But yeah, if you need a semi-auto, and you don’t have to have a micro-pistol, just get a 9mm already.
OP, get what you like to shoot, make sure it’s reliable, and go practice.
Gray Ghost,
Really nice post!
This video gives one an idea of the kinetic energy of various rounds.
I carry a Walther PK380 .380 caliber because it fits me like an extension of my arm. I am female with small weak hands and I am able to operate the PK380 with no difficulty. It is also small enough to CC under most of my clothing. My number one priority for my CCW was that I had to be comfortable shooting it.
A fingerless padded glove will take the sting out of practicing with a small gun.
Thanks again to all who have replied. For those who have had unpleasant experiences with .380 autos, try a Sig P238. My son-in-law has one, and it is one of the most pleasant guns to shoot that I have tried.
Glock 19. I’m not a big guy, but it’s fairly to easy to conceal in an IWB holster. If I’m wearing a light jacket I can even pretty effectively hide it with a shoulder holster. I’ve had several dealings with police while carrying (ticket, accident, conversations), and none have ever noticed I was armed. I suspect it’s all about appearance and attitude. I don’t dress scuzzy and I have a good attitude, so I don’t get a second glance.
I carry with a round in the chamber, and as you know from your own Glock, it does not have an external safety. I can’t guarantee that I’ll have both hands free should I ever need to draw, so I don’t see the value of carrying with an empty chamber (the three times I’ve been in situations where a firearm could have come into play, I was within arms reach of the person – you may need the other arm to create defensible space). If your final choice lacks an external safety and you’re not comfortable with that, I’d recommend carrying with an empty chamber for a while. Practice drawing and bringing the pistol onto target. Practice a lot. You’ll develop muscle memory and you’ll find the pistol isn’t going to discharge until you want it to. When you feel comfortable carrying, you can transition to carrying with a round chambered.
I’ve been feeding it Winchester PDX1 147gr Bonded JHPs, but I’m thinking of switching to a Gold Dot 124gr +P. It has a higher slide velocity, so if I end up in trouble and don’t have a good grip on the weapon, there’s less chance of a malfunction. I recommend checking out the Pistol Forums for advice on ammo for whatever you get.
And as for whatever gun you do decide to get, find a gun range that rents, and try before you buy. You don’t want to drop $500-600 on a pistol, another $100+ on holster, extra mags, etc, only to find that you don’t like it later. The Glock is my 4th gun, and I have a lot spare leather as a result. 
If the pistol isn’t comfortable to shoot, you’re not going to practice with it, and if you aren’t practicing, IMO you shouldn’t be carrying.
My LCP stung my hand when I first got it, but I don’t notice it much anymore.
I’ve got one of those tiny single action .22 Mag revolvers too. It’s made by North American Arms. I sometimes carry it instead of the LCP. I can’t hit anything with it, but it’s so loud that everyone close by would probably fall to the ground if I fired it. I’m not kidding, it’s LOUD.
Thanks for the link. Very informative. I learn something everytime I read a post or presentation from Dr. Gary Roberts (DocGKR). Another +1 on the ‘for G_d’s sake, rent before you buy.’ As to the spare leather, it’s one reason I like the Minotaur holster so much. Just swap out a kydex body for each separate gun. Great customer service too. Remora holsters are also pretty slick. Well, actually they’re the polar opposite of slick, but you get the idea. Quite versatile, as these videos from Faila Photography show. Finally, I agree the P238 is one sweet shooting pistol. Haven’t shot it’s big brother, the P938, yet. Again, it’s SAO, which is going to take some training to get used to. Once you get used to it though, mag dumps all into a paper plate at 7 yds in ~2 seconds are incredibly easy. Really surprised me.
*Inarguably, the Browning Hi-Power, or P-35, is one of the most successful pistols in the world. As double-action auto pistols increased in popularity among U.S. shooters in the '70s, speculation ran rampant that a double-action variant of the Hi-Power would be introduced. There were many stories of their imminent arrival, but despite the occasional photograph of some factory prototype, they remained elusive. A few conversions Ire done by domestic gunsmiths; the late Louis Seecamp built two by adapting the system he used to convert Colt Government Models. But an affordable, commercial DA *
Mine is single action. Probably made in the 60s.
As for the kick. I never really noticed. I have another 9mm so the next time I go shooting, I’ll compare. I used to have a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 Magnum. I remember my wrist used to hurt after shooting that.
Polymer framed, striker fired pistols that don’t have an external safety.
They are lighter and very reliable.
That Glock 19 is easy to conceal with the right holster.
Here is a pic of my g23(same size):
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad351/mikecu_photos/Guns/CIMG2061.jpg
My trusty old Beretta 96D in .40 S&W. Nice weapon that has lasted me for many moons. Very easily concealable with your shirt untucked and also under a heavy winter coat. I have walked into many situations with it on and no one has been the wiser.
I had a Glock 19 for a while but I was never a “fan” of the weapon so I sold it to a friend. To me, they don’t look like handguns and I have always preferred Berettas and SIGs.
The part that isn’t pleasant is the price of .380 ammo.
This is why it’s always better to read the book instead of only watching the movie. According to the book, the bullets have a droplet of liquid mercury within, which when decelerated upon hitting the target, causes the bullet to fragment causing great internal damage. Fulminated mercury is not used.
I carried a S&W M-59, which I believe was one of the first “wonder nines”. It had a transfer bar, so I had no fears carrying it hammer down with a round in the chamber. Applying the safety decocked it anyway.