Really excellent illustration of the frustration of owning a dog-reactive dog. They can still be good pets, it is just a fair bit more work and some extra vigilance required.
Which of course can be extended to any number of behavioral issues. There is nothing that makes life easier than a dog with excellent natural recall :). And vice versa - single-minded dogs with poor recall are yet another sort of pain in the ass.
I agree this seems to be part of it. With friend’s pits I’ve often seem them have a ball playing with other dogs who were happy to immediately get shoved into a rough and tumble wrestling match. Dogs that object to being suddenly pounced upon and try to warn them off from the over-familiarity trigger a scuffle, because pits will just refuse to back down to most other dogs. It’s romp or fight.
Lots of great advice in this thread, although I would quibble with a few details.
If you want to appear intimidating, get a facial tattoo, not a presa canario or cane corso. I particularly disagree with the idea I saw mentioned that a hypothetical presa would be for guarding, not a pet. One of the four primary identified causes of dog bite fatalities is when a dog resides on the property but is not part of the family ( a so-called “resident” dog). Avoid this.
I’ll echo the “adopt, don’t buy” crowd.
Vislas aren’t merely high-energy dogs. The ones I’ve met are “go like hell flat-out for hours” dogs. Lovely and nice, but I am not athletic enough to keep one happy.
I adore pit bulls and we have opened our home to several. Would not recommend them for someone new to dogs. Also, pit bulls make terrible guard or home-defense dogs, unless you are under attack by squirrels. They love human strangers and have little sense of territoriality. “A pit bull defends only the ground under his own four feet,” the old saying goes.
I disagree that bullies don’t look at you or are dumb…speaking about those without reactivity/aggression, of course, my spin on it is that they are superduper excited about playing, so they get tunnel vision and might not look at their human when they have other dogs to roughhouse with.
But I totally agree with you they have a much different idea of manners than some dogs – they’re often like frat boys who came to party. All the bullies I’ve known like physical contact and if another dog doesn’t there might be a problem.
I do like your use of the term “snow dog.”
Indulge a little bragging – we happen to have lucked into a pit bull girl (Luna) with a fantastic disposition regarding dogs and children. Last night a friend brought two Siberian Huskies to our house. They towered over our pit bulls Luna and Simone, but they were polite in a reserved way. One of them grabbed a ball of Luna’s we had failed to police up, and Luna came over to play…the husky snarfed at her…and Luna backed off prudently, in her own home. We took the ball away and within minutes Luna was lying with with the male husky using him as a pillow for her head. So at least occasionally, snow dogs and pit bulls can get along quite well. But I wouldn’t recommend inexperienced human caretakers try that.
The truth is, individual dogs vary more than breeds vary. Adopt (please) a dog from a reputable group who has evaluated that dog and will brief you, preferably an adult dog who is a known quantity, and spend time with the dog both training and hanging out, and you’ll be quite happy with the results.
Also, there’s different levels of dog reactivity/ dog-on-dog aggression. We had a reactive mix for a long time and she was quite manageable as long as we were mindful.
Then we took in a super-reactive dog who only wanted to kill other dogs. That was…well, that was like having a Hannibal Lecter as a loved but feared member of the family. We got to the point of only going outside with a muzzle, harness, martingale collar, two separately-attached leashes, and a “spotter” who would exit the building first and look both ways for dogs before we smuggled Diamond out into the grass for a quick pee. We would take her to an unoccupied office building (with permission) late at night to exercise her without any chance of encounters.
If you are not an experienced dog person, do not take on a “fixer upper” dog-aggressive dog.
Edit: for clarity, Diamond was not a pit bull per se, but a mix, mostly Plott Hound. (Despite this intimidating linked article, I have known at least one other Plott Hound, who was perfectly well behaved, so I am not blaming Plotts in particular).
I would really think hard about the “guard dog” idea. Guard type dogs have certain things which make them guard dogs.
They are big. They are strong even for their size.
They are protective because they are more territorial than most other dogs (they protect what they perceive as their own space, their own people, their own … anything).
They are usually more stubborn and self-willed than most other breeds (because you wouldn’t have a guard dog if just anybody could tell them what to do).
They react to what they perceive as danger by going toward it and acting aggressively. A poorly socialized guard dog may perceive a great many things, events, and people as dangerous which are, in fact, not. Socializing a guard dog must be done by an experienced person with a lot of time, as a puppy.
Does this sound like the right kind of dog for someone who has never even had any kind of a pet? Remember, dogs relate to people as individuals – they aren’t going to treat you with respect just because they respect your husband.
I think you should get something which is NOT a guardian breed – and consider adopting a grown-up dog. There are many out there homeless on death row for no fault of their own, and you’ll know much better whether you and it are a good fit right away. All puppies are cute, but they all grow up very quickly into dogs (usually destroying pieces of your house in the process).
Any medium-sized dog is a deterrent to someone of ill-will. Even a tiny dog which will bark its head off is a deterrent.
I’ve recommended this website before, it’s the only one of its kind in that it covers almost all breeds, and offered very sound and very detailed advice about those breeds. You should definitely take a look at it: honest dog breed reviews
Perhaps it’s that pits have a different sort of intelligence–I’ve met quite a few with great manners and good tricks so obviously there’s something going on up there. I’m just used to herding dogs, whose obsession is to figure out what you want and do it for you, whereas, as has been pointed out, the bullies have the obsession to play and romp endlessly. That makes them a lot of fun but sometimes it can be a bit wearing, especially the five hundredth time they bring you back that spit soaked tennis ball. Herding dogs have a lot of energy, but if you just let them follow you around everywhere it substantially drains their reserves to the point where a good focused game of fetch will calm them right down.
I like it that herding dogs protect their people whereas guard dogs protect their space. Having a smart and capable dog along who’s good at reading body language, vocal tone and pheromones makes for a lot of peace of mind. My old border collie mix might not weigh much but he can size up an asshole when he sees one and always goes for the hamstrings. Very useful in a fight.
I agree with this so much. I’m kind of put off by the OP’s husband projecting his machismo onto the potential future dog. It’s not fair to the dog and it’s a recipe for disaster. But you can never tell people what to do, so I guess that’s all I’ll say about it.
The last part is key. And in adopting a young adult dog it’s possible (not 100% foolproof) to get to know the individual dog’s personality before deciding, and with help from good shelter rescue people to guide you. Again I get that some people want to raise a puppy. But not everyone does, and plenty of non-puppies need a home.
The discussion about ‘pit bulls’ having edgy manners with other dogs applies to some, surely. Not ours. She is absolutely impossible with other dogs. She’s not put within reach of them under any circumstance. The danger is if other aggressive dogs are off leash (which means illegally where we live, since we never go into the dog run) and come after her, then a dog could get seriously hurt and probably not her. But with children totally different, all humans are her friends but she shifts into a specially gentle mode with little kids. And she’s a smart dog in emotional communication with people, though not especially smart with tricks, and not interested in figuring out how to be a naughty girl by stealing food (our previous hound type was brilliant at that).
But while the internet ad we first read said she was good with other dogs, her foster ‘mom’ told us ‘ohhh no’. So you just have to know what you’re getting into with dog aggression, IMO. Human aggression with strong dogs is a complete no go for us, even selective. I don’t want a dog that’s anything more than a visual deterrent against people, which is all she is.
Yeah. I probably underemphasized this in my previous post. They are like Energizer bunnies. They will knock over coffee tables, bounce off the back of the couch, and generally tear around the place when they are bored.
On the positive side, the OP was looking for a low-shed dog and vizslas don’t really require brushing or grooming beyond a regular bath.
All of mine have been just great with other dogs.
Back to the negatives…they can be incredibly manipulative if you don’t take a firm stance with them. And they don’t react well to discipline, being more inclined to do what you want based on rewards or the fact that they just like you a lot.
That dog’s name was Fiona. Can you imagine people being afraid of something called “Fiona”?
My Pit/GSD had a very Pibble personality, it seemed to me. I really couldn’t see much GSD in the way she behaved. She had no shepherding behavior at all.
She was good at the butt-sniff, though.
She also had amazing puppy ethics. When she played with puppies, even tiny puppies, she let them win sometimes. She’d be this 80lb. dog playing with a 10 week old puppy, and she’d go belly-up, and let it pin her neck. If it wasn’t sure what to do, she’d even kinda stick her neck in its mouth, and move it into place very gently with her paw, so it was in a proper “pin” position. It was one of the “squeeee!-est” things I’ve ever seen. I wish camera phone had existed, because I’d love to have a video of her playing with a puppy. She played with the one cat I had who liked wrestling with her as well, and let him tackle her. She’d do a big showy fake fall, like he really knocked her over. I think it was her puppy ethic spilling over.
My other Pibble wasn’t as amazing with puppies as the PB/GSD, but she was good at playing with other dogs as well. It probably matters that when I got her as a small puppy we had other adult dogs who socialized her pretty well.
Which is another thing: if the OP gets a puppy, she needs to make sure there is access to adequate socialization experiences for the dog. Is there a local dog park?
I really like getting dogs who’re around the 6 months-one year range in age. All the bullshit’s over and you can get a really accurate estimate of their temperament. I recently adopted a ten month old heeler/lab mix, I got the lab/husky mix at nine months and the border collie/JRT cross was six months old. They’re a lot easier to integrate with adult dogs when they can hold their own and know how to be dog social.
My DIL had a very sweet pibble who had borne a couple litters before DIL got her (and spayed her) so she was very good with pups but impossible with adult dogs. She put the bite on every dog in the family–daughter’s dog has a notch in her tongue from the pit, my bc mix got his face chomped pretty good and if we hadn’t been johnny on the spot when she met the husky mix there’d probably have been a huge vet bill. Pit was super awesome with kids and people and babies and indifferent to cats, but pretty much every dog would run into her rough side eventually and she had zero bite calibration. My more aggressive dog has yet to draw blood on another dog in nine years–he’s all sound and fury, signifying nothing much. Son and DIL had a rough time trying to find a dog sitter for the pibble, lucky for us all every one of the family dogs is now best of friends so we can all rely on each other for coverage when we need to have the beasts cared for while travelling. I’m sorry they lost her but it sure is easier knowing I can bring one or more of my critters over to visit without having to worry.
We looked into a dog rescue agency in the area. They place dogs with foster families until they find someone to adopt the dog, and we’ve filled out the application to be considered as an acceptable candidate for adopting one of the dogs.
Also, you all did a good job of pointing out the merits of not getting a puppy. We are now specifically NOT looking at puppies – or at least, not newborn puppies. We’re still considering puppies in the 6 mos - 1 year range. We’re considering older dogs as well, because, as Sunny Daze and perhaps others pointed out, you have a better idea of the dog’s temperament if you’re not taking them too young. A lot of the dogs we look at end up being mixes, but we’re not focusing on one particular breed so much as looking at what’s available and considering whether the dog looks like a good fit from the description and pictures.
Also, Sunny Daze, thanks for having the sensitivity and insight to realize that to my husband, the appeal of an intimidating dog is that I’ll have someone to help protect me when he’s not there. That is absolutely what’s going on. (For those of you who suggested other ways he can be a badass, he already does ride a motorcyle, and while he doesn’t have a facial tattoo, he does have sleeves on both arms!)
Another thing we plan on doing is asking the agency/foster parents how they think the dog would do with a first-time dog owner, since, as someone mentioned upthread, a dog’s demeanor isn’t entirely determined by its breed, but also by its own unique personality.
Finally, one follow-up question for you all: When we actually go to see potential dogs in-person, any recommendations of signs I should look for to indicate that the dog would or would not be a good fit?
IANADog Person, but I’d say how well the dog responds to you both before and after you’ve been introduced. From the dogs of friends, family and neighbors, I get the notion that dogs should be cool with strangers and friendly and ready to obey with those who’ve been given authority over the dog. Hopefully my notion won’t be so far out that I’ll have every dog-person in the thread pulling their hair off
How much experience do you have with dogs? The question I’m really working up to is, if I asked you whether a dog liked you or not, do you feel like you could answer?
I think when you’re working with rescues they do most of the deciding for you. When I met both of my dogs it was more of an interview of me, not the other way around.
Oddly enough, the two cancelled each other out and he ended up being a chill couch potato and my little shadow who follows at my heel everywhere I go. Used to go to work with me and sleep in the kneehole of my desk. He’s old now, and grumpy, and has a huge liver tumor that’s going to be taking him away probably before summer is out and he’s finally showing signs of the JRT side by being compulsively barky. His BC side hates it that he’s pissing everyone off by barking at everything and you can see the embarrassment on his face but he can’t stop. It’s kinda funny if you can ignore the strident noise!
As for what to look for in a dog on first meeting, I’d look for a dog that tracks onto you–watches your face for clues how to behave, isn’t too effusive in greeting and who can be encouraged to sit and behave nicely for petting. Walk around and see if the dog wants to follow you or is more interested in other things/dogs/people. Check for reactivity to sudden movements, noises, etc. If you can, take the dog for a ride in the car then for a walk on a leash–Home Depot or PetSmart is a good destination because they allow dogs in and there’s a lot going on. You want a dog that’s curious but not lunging to check everything out, and some nervousness is okay, especially if the dog turns to you for reassurance. Give the dog a toy, then take it back, check for signs of resource guarding–a dog that guards against people is risky for a first time owner and you’d be setting both of you up for a struggle over who’s boss.
When I took my two down to see if the heeler cross would suit us, a big positive sign was that she very quickly (as in, within hours) accepted me as an authority and started following me around in preference to two people she’d lived with and known for a lot longer. She was taking her cue from the other dogs, that I would be the one who decided what’s what–also, I fed them all so that won her over really fast because she’s super food motivated. I really look for that sort of fast bonding, it signals well for the overall relationship between you and the dog.
And really, ANY dog can be an effective guard dog–the trick is that they must want to defend YOU. You only get that with bonding–guard dogs that guard a place are, in my opinion, way inferior to what might seem to be a less scary and impressive dog who’s super bonded to and protective of their people. Bear is the sweetest dog in the world, but anyone who threatens me is going to get a big surprise out of him–and he’s the type who aims for crotch high when he bites. He also knows that he’s in charge of the place when I’m gone and the list of people who can come through the gate without fear is very, very short.
Umm … I’m hesitating with how to answer this. I’m not real experienced with dogs, but I do think I could tell to at least some extent. If they have lowered ears and are growling, it’s a safe bet that they don’t, and if they’re jumping all around and want to play with me, they do. But I’m sure there are more subtle cues that I probably wouldn’t pick up on.
[edited to add: got distracted and left this un-posted for a while. In the meantime, I see SmartAleq said something similar and I agree.]
That’s good advice. I’ll keep my hair for now.
Generally, you are looking for a dog who interacts with you at the rescue/meeting site. Not necessarily one who climbs into your lap and won’t leave; sometimes one who wants you to hold the leash on a walk is enough. What you are trying to avoid is a dog whose main interaction with you is to move around you so he/she can see something else better. A surprising number of the dogs we “interviewed,” after a perfunctory greeting, only had eyes for the rescue staff or the horizon or passing cars or whatever – they simply weren’t interested in us.
Examples:
Early in the process, we interviewed a dog named James. He was handsome and energetic and looked to his handler, but mostly ran around the meeting site and didn’t interact much with us. We nevertheless brought him home to see if he’d be a good fit with out littler, older dog Simone. James ceaselessly circled our home trying to get out, shrugging off our attempts to interact with him, and trampling Simone without looking at her if she strayed into the path of his pacing. We reluctantly returned him to his rescue organization, as he was thoroughly unhappy in our home.
Our new heartthrob, Luna, who is such a good fit for us, was different. She first caught our eye at a county shelter when she was auditioning for others – a family with small children. We were struck by the way she played with the little ones – she wanted them to chase her when she had the toy, but when they couldn’t catch her, she laid down and “let” them catch her. When the littlest was afraid to grab the toy in her mouth, she set it down and nudged it toward him with her nose. In between playing with the children, she’d loop back to the human parents and “check in” with them, apparently seeking their approval of what she was doing with their children.
We were a little jealous that these people were obviously going to scoop her up before we could. But they did not, and she was still available later. We will never know why they did not add her to their family, but it turns out she is deaf – perhaps that deterred them. She is wonderful for us, and rock-solid with dogs, children, cats, and babies.
The takeaway – not every dog is going to provide an elaborate demonstration of desirable behaviors, but do be wary of a dog who gives virtually no attention to you during a meeting.
I particularly disagree with the idea I saw mentioned that a hypothetical presa would be for guarding, not a pet. One of the four primary identified causes of dog bite fatalities is when a dog resides on the property but is not part of the family ( a so-called “resident” dog). Avoid this.
