Then why live at all?
I guess I’m with the theists on this one in that god isn’t subject to logic - at least I’ve not heard a compelling argument for why he should be. But he is subject to questions, as are theists and their beliefs.
God does not force you to come into physical life (remember free will) you do so by choice only. It is the courageous and daring that do so. Some find they can’t handle it and leave by their own hand. I believe it takes an anchor to do well here. The religious find it in their God. Some find it in accumulating wealth. There are many anchors. One can opt for one or not, you have free will.
So what you are saying, correct me if I’m wrong, is that your preffered god treats human life and existance as a playground. Life is just a revolving door. He is not interested in this realm in the least because souls can freely come and go as they choose, per above. So none of this matters one damn bit. Why are you working so hard to please him in this life?
I am not working to please Him, He is already pleased with me and everyone else.
The physical life is an accelerated learning school that you don’t need to attend.
Learning and growth is important to us as it is to new born babies.
I chose to be born?
How can you know all this if we are all ignorant about God? Are YOU the exception?
Except that that’'s not what most people want to believe about God, and therefore that’s not an acceptable conception of God. God’s nature is based on wish fulfillment, not facts. I’ve often heard believers use phrases like “is that the kind of God you want to believe in?” as if it was an actual meaningful argument about the nature of God.
And besides, once you start changing “God” so much that it no longer fits the mythology, then you aren’t really talking about “God” at all, you’re talking about another mythical being. Something that often happens in arguments like this I note.
I would rephrase that to better answer the OP’s question, as you seem to want to go down a tangent to some ulterior purpose. If someone has unlimited power and is defined to be a god, I would only follow him if he uses that power for good. His “duty” is irrelevant, the question is what kind of god would I follow. I would only follow a benevolent one that uses its powers to reduce suffering. I would not follow any other kind
Free will is a means to an end and has no value in and of itself. We’re all supposedly happy in heaven right? So heaven has no free will? The ultimate goal of any sentient life is to be happy by whatever definition one considers valid. If I had no free will but was happy, I would be fine. It is logically impossible for me to be happy but unhappy about my lack of free will. Either I’m completely happy or I’m not
What kind of questions can we ask without logic or even rational thought?
Simply put, if we can’t use logic when discussing god then there’s nothing we can say about that concept at all.
A reference to this story perhaps? Not that it has anything to do with gods of any kind, just medical science.
That’s nonsense. Plenty of the misery in the world has nothing to do with “free will”, and plenty more that is against people’s will. There’s an immense amount even a pretty weak god could do to make the world better without violating anybody’s “free will” in the process. Not that such a violation is some innate moral evil in the first place; we don’t have to let a serial killer keep killing just because that’s what he wants to do.
Then there’s nothing meaningful that can be said or even thought about the subject, and theists should remain silent. But they won’t; as Mijin said, God is only “beyond logic” when it is convenient for him to be.
That’s a stance that validates the use of mind control to enslave people, as long as you make them happy as part of the control. So no, I disagree. As somebody once said, happiness alone isn’t enough, unless you’re a cow. And I’m not a cow.
My broken wrist, shoulder, and leg, each broken separately, over several years, would seem to indicate that (earth) ain’t too terribly safe. God’s falling down on the job you’ve defined for him.
That’s only if you think of the world in terms of movie plots. I can see it now, lobotomies for everyone like that Star Trek or Twilight Zone episode, or people hooked up to the Matrix living out “regular” lives. That kind of fantasy works in fiction because fiction require some conflict, some problem that needs to be resolved.
In the real world, our imaginations need not be limited by such tropes. I don’t need free will if all my needs were taken care of, all my whims catered to, my every desire at my beck and call. That’s not mind control, that’s just giving people what they want. A god by definition with the power to do that is able to give all these to every person. I would follow such a god.
I am certainly NOT talking about a Matrix-like scenario where reality is not what you suspect it to be, and we’re all warm bodies hooked up to a pleasure generator. My idea of true happiness doesn’t supplant thought, it caters to it. Such a thing need not affect free will, and even if one had none, it wouldn’t be bad in this situation
Raping kids is bad, m’kay. Don’t rape kids. It’s bad, m’kay.
Right for being born
Wrong for being created
No, I said He didn’t interfere with your life.
Given the universe as it is, and since no solution presents itself to the Problem of Evil, the only God I could believe in would be either actively malicious, ultimately impotent, or just absurdly flippant.
But did you go back to the doctor after that? Yes or no?
Yes
That morning? That week? That month? That year? Did the doctor confirm that you had a heart attack that night?