With regards to German submarines (U-boats) in WWII, there were 6 pistols kept in stock on every boat, in addition to (depending on the type of boat) 2 rifles or 2 submachine guns and one machine gun (at least according to the regulations that were in place).
The men of the USS Alabama in Crimson Tide certainly seemed well-armed during their little inter-crew spat, but I suppose that’s just Hollywood.
U-boote certainly carried small arms : one of the few crimes they successfully pinned on the Kriegsmarine in the postwar trials* was that one skipper reportedly ordered the survivors of a ship they’d torpedoed shot at and the ship’s wreckage destroyed in an using machine guns (presumably MP-40s) and some hand grenades in an effort to avoid giving away the submarine’s position.
It makes general sense to arm the crew, anyway - you never know when you’re going to have to board another ship, and besides early in the war at least** German Navy ships would try and rescue the people they’d just shipwrecked. It wouldn’t do to have one’s ship overrun by its prisoners, now would it ? ![]()
- beyond unrestricted submarine warfare itself, which had been an agreed no-no in prewar treaties, but *that *was a tougher sell because a) the Kriegsmarine only escalated to that in response to similar aggression on the part of the Allies and b) the US Silent Service had been set on unrestricted warfare mode from day 1.
** The practice was ordered stopped in 42 after some American planes attacked a trio of U-boote in the process of such a rescue operation, in spite of the Americans being aware of what was going on.
I would refer you to the Laconia incident - Laconia incident - Wikipedia
Was just reminded of this tragic incident aboard HMS Astute only two years ago: HMS Astute (S119) - Wikipedia
Having just spent the last 10 years serving on fast attack submarines, I can safely say that Crimson Tide is less realistic thanDown Periscope.
As far as the OP, we had an assortment of 9mm pistols, 12 gauge shotguns, M-16s, and a couple M60s. These would be for in-port security, small boat dissuasion near the coast, repel boarders situations, and shark watch during swim calls. Modern submarines are very versatile platforms, but we never stormed any beaches, so no mines or claymores were kept onboard.
SEAL teams would bring their own firepower. Who knows what they would have with them.
Sounds like he was exersizing his “Stand Your Sea” rights.
Just kidding, how sad.
To be fair, *Down Periscope *is actually a pretty good movie.
M1911s, 12ga shotguns and M-16s on my first boat ('80s) and second boat (early '90s). 9mms, 12ga and M-16s on my third boat (around the turn of the century), with the addition of a Mk 46 the last couple years I was there.
When my first boat did the homeport shift from VA to HI, two or three crewmembers had personal firearms on board, but they were kept locked up in the small arms locker with the boat’s weapons.
Fifty years ago we had side arms and even Thompson machine guns and the old M-1’s in fact I was on the last diesel submarine that had 50 caliber machine guns stored in special lockers topside. We needed them to repeal borders.
We even had the last gunners mate in the Navy on submarines, but on to more modern submarines we had 45’s for the topside watch and the captain and the XO had to arm themselves every time we received a message to go to war, which read something like this:
“This is the captain speaking we have just received a message from the President of the United States to launch missiles” “Now man battle stations missile”
I wouldn’t want to be on a submarine with everyone firing at each other. Too many things for a bullet to bounce off of and hit you with a stray. The arming of the officers was to deter any crazy sailor that thought we shouldn’t go to war and yes just like the movies they have two keys, one for the captain and one for the XO and they need to be turned at the same time.
What the Russians have … I do not know, but I can tell you one thing they have 70% officers to 30% enlisted men, sort of strange to me, but that’s the way they are and very gung ho.
Well, that’s what all war is, innit ? ![]()
My understanding is that during the Soviet era their navy- including submarines- included draftees doing their mandatory military service. Perhaps not the most reliable personnel.
Captain, this is no time for legislation!
My understanding is the Russian (and prior to that Soviet) submarines have commissioned officers doing tasks that the USN would assign to warrant officers, CPOs, and PO1s.
I agree wholeheartedly. I’m been saying the same thing on this board for years.
We also stationed a lookout topside with an M-16 for shark watch during swim calls. We also stationed a guy on the sail with an M-16 for polar bear watch when we broke through the ice pack up in the Arctic, and crew members were given permission to go out on “ice liberty.”
The general consensus onboard was that an M-16 would probably just piss off a polar bear, though, so I’m glad no bear ever showed up. ![]()
When they were told this in the military, an acquaintance of mine says that one soldier piped up, “He won’t catch me. He be slippin’ on shit!”
Two sailors are fleeing a polar bear, heading back to their sub as fast as they can. One says, “I sure hope we can outrun him!”
The other says, “Buddy, I just need to outrun you!”
As a submariner in the late 90 s we carried a few weapons for security purposes, for onboard security issues crew members used an Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun as primary weapon, using standard issues OO shell (buckshot)the reason being a shotgun won’t ricochet like a bullet and cause residual damage to life and machinary, we never used a rifle on board, topside security were issued M1911.45 pistol and the shotgun, for topside assault or shark watch we used an M 14 rifle, I remember that standing topside security we did not keep our weapons loaded at times because sailors are notorious for not being properly trained with weapons…hope this helps
I recall several reported incidents in which the topside watch (in port) managed to shoot themselves in the foot with their .45 pistol. :smack: This was the same pistol they were not supposed to load unless they were called upon to use deadly force. Since the weapon was not supposed to be loaded in the first place, they were in deep shit when an accidental discharge took place. Once they recovered from the injury, they were generally subjected to nonjudicial punishment (Captain’s mast) and busted down in rank.
You mean something like this ?