What limits does the Constitution place on the federal government?

A libertarian blogger asks this question of his liberal readers. As it’s a libertarian blog, I don’t expect a lot of answers from said liberals (just from sheer numbers, you understand), but I was curious as to what the many liberal (and heck, conservative) political thinkers here at the Dope would answer this question.

You can read the post itself to get all the details of his question/argument (and suggested links that explicate his own POV), but basically, the question is this: other than the Bill of Rights, what limits do you think the Constitution places on federal government power? If any at all, what are the limits? If none, what was the Constitution written for in the first place?

Well, the Federal government only has the specific powers that the Constitution enumerates, and confers on it. Some of those powers are quite wide, and their precise ambit is a matter for decision by the courts. But, unless a particualr measure comes within the ambit of one of those powers, the federal government has no power to enact that measure.

AFAIK, the reason for the adoption of the Constitution was to give the federal level of government more power than it previously had.

There you go.

On the other hand:

Do you think a modern Yank has any reason to give a flying speck of dust–what property owners (who were substantially slavers) in the east coast states days of the Articles of Confederation thought about appropriate federal power? Because that’s who ratified the Tenth Amendment.

Not anyone west of the Appalachians.
Not anyone who worked for a living.
Not anyone who grew up in the USA as a unified nation.

Instead of assuming there’s a good reason for the Tenth today, look at where it comes from.

ETA: And yes, that applies to the entire Bill of Rights, & the main articles of the Constitution. Instead of groveling before tradition, let’s consider the actual consequences of a given policy for the land we live in–and that land as we know it, not as some (relatively ignorant) self-important landowner terrorists in the age of bleeding as cure-all imagined it!

Was the inflammatory rhetoric above designed to avoid any pretense of serious discourse? If so, bravo. You’ve done an excellent job of poisoning the well.

Seriously, I’m puzzled why I should care about the Tenth Amendment at all, beyond at best a sort of urgent need to repeal the stupid thing.

Remember, the Tenth Amendment is not part of the basic structure of the Constitution. It’s an amendment, an add-on, a later modification. In fact, it could be argued that the Tenth is a vague attempt to undermine the Constitution proper.

But in any case, the Tenth Amendment was proposed as a way to sell the Constitution to the east coast landowners who were in power under the previous government, the Articles of Confederation. No one from west of the Appalachians voted for it; no one who worked for a living; no one who had grown up in the USA as a nation. It was a sop to slavers & worse to let them think that things wouldn’t get too radical.

Now, one could condemn the entire Bill of Rights, the entire Constitution before amendments, as a product of the same privileged class, & be correct. The difference is that some of those serve some rational purpose. The Tenth, on the other hand, is utterly a product of its particular era & the political concerns of that era. It doesn’t add one useful thing to the function of a modern US government. In fact, by encouraging split sovereignty, it would if taken seriously turn governing into an irritating game of wars over which government has a prerogative–undermining the ability to write laws even when those laws are useful or even vitally necessary.

No, it’s time for the Tenth Amendment to go.

And they were certainly terrorists and revolutionaries, of a privileged landowning class economically alien to most persons in today’s proletarian USA. Treating the product of their politics as immutable tradition is foolish & ridiculous, but thinking it has anything to do with what we today expect of our government, post-Andrew Jackson, post-Fourteenth Amendment, post-New Deal, is just pathetically laughable.

All the Tenth does now is preserve local prerogative in the hands of the corrupt incompetent amateurs who populate state legislatures, at the expense of unified & rational law in the USA.

I might in some universe be persuadable that federal democracy is somehow not going to bring about the end of life on Planet Earth; this is unlikely, but conceivable. Nothing will make me like the Tenth Amendment; it is insensible.

Your best source on that would be The Frozen Republic: How the Constitution is Paralyzing Democracy, by Daniel Lazare.

Crap. I stand by (most of) what I said, but spilling it across four posts of the first eight made it into a threadshit. Sorry.

Go on.

Because that’s the key: until it’s repealed, it’s the law of the land, no?

With all due respect, it wasn’t spreading it out that accomplished that.

++++

Proposition: There are limits. But over time, we’ve found it to be useful to have them be quite elastic, because we’ve needed to respond to problems not foreseen by the FF back in the late 1780s. In general, the Federal government is limited more by the rights guaranteed individual citizens than by the powers reserved to the states. The Tenth occasionally pops up in jurisprudence, e.g., in National League of Cities case, but as a practical limit on Fe3eral power, it tends to show up more in blogs and oratory than in actual legislative or jurisprudential activity.

Because until it is repealed, it should be treated and followed as much as the other amendments. When the nation went dry, we didn’t just go ‘Oh, that amendment doesn’t mean what it says it means, and why should we be limited by what those guys long ago thought anyway?’ We repealed the thing. Until we did so, it was the law of the land though. If the 10th really shouldn’t apply today, there’s a way of getting rid of it. Provided, of course, that 3/4 the states agree with you.

Although, usually, I see this sort of intellectual dishonesty in arguments about the 2nd rather than the 10th.

So no respect at all then? Fair enough. :wink:

Prohibition was very widely violated, though. If everyone had been happy teetotalers, would there have been a repeal?

There won’t be a repeal until there is a strong movement of those who think the Tenth a bad idea. If simply ignoring it as an archaic pre-Reconstruction curiosity is not enough, then we have to be speaking out against it. I speak in very nasty terms about the generation who produced the Bill of Rights to make a point. They were not saints, nor Magi, not even a little bit.

A fairly useless part of it, however. Few court decisions have been based on the 10th, and those few are regrettable ones, if not quite Dred Scott regrettable.