“Do you think Einstein went around thinking everyone was a bunch of dumbasses?”
“Yeah. Probably the reason he made that bomb!”
That’s always possible. If it looks like a nerd, we tend to think it’s a nerd.
People also seem to that that I am smart. The flip side of that, however, is if you think that I am smarter than you, logic would dictate that I think you are an imbecile. People don’t like being thought of as imbeciles.
There is also the matter of having a higher intelligence can open a lot of doors for
people. It can be hard to get attached to people if you know you are going to basically leave them behind in a short while as they stay where they are and you advance in your life and career.
Put me down for something like this. For me, it isn’t so much that I consider small talk boring, although a lot of it can be, it is that I sort of resent how difficult it is to find someone at a social function that can discuss things that I’m interested in.
F’rinstance, I’m a huge history buff. But just try to bring up how the struggles between the Roman and Persian empires laid the foundations for the western/middle eastern problems of today, and see how far you get.
“That’s always possible. If it looks like a nerd, we tend to think it’s a nerd.”
I think that’s exactly the point. “Nerd” has the connotations of social awkwardness in addition to intelligence. There are tons of really smart people who also have social skills and IME, the vast majority of them aren’t thought of as “nerds” precisely because they have social skills.
The disconnect is assuming that a “nerd” is the only intelligent type out there. Tons of people do this, and I don’t understand it. A person who is intelligent and socially-skilled generally won’t “seem” super-smart, because the very nature of casual conversation/interaction is generally bland, generic, or superficial; said smart-social person knows that and adjusts their conversations accordingly. If the conversation has been about the shitty weather, a local sports team, something on tv or whatever, they know not to suddenly bring up string theory, how the industrial revolution brought about the end of the apprenticeship system or the interesting sociological research being conducted in Lithuania.
Because they know how to read a room, they will adjust their conversation topics and just talk about what everyone else talks about. This means they appear “normal” (or average, or what have you). So then the smart-and-socially-awkward people are the ones left who blatantly (which doesn’t necessarily mean “intentionally”) show their smarts, thus giving the impression that “all smart people are socially awkward”.
That’s not exactly my point. What you’re asserting in the OP is that smart people are more awkward than less smart people, but I guarantee you that the only examples you had in mind when you wrote that were awkward smart people. If you want to make that comparison, you also need to think of awkward normal people, and less awkward people of all mental abilities.
I’m inclined to agree with it mostly being confirmation bias, but I think there’s also a big difference between smart people and geniuses for these purposes.
If we’re talking about smart people - not just a bit above average, mind, but people who tend to be really good at their job, and are generally acknowledged as smart by those they speak to - I’d agree with what some others have said, that the correlation you’re referring to doesn’t really exist or isn’t particularly strong.
If we’re talking about geniuses, though, I think there’s a lot going on there besides high intelligence. Often they’re so driven about their particular area of expertise that they’ll neglect other aspects of their life. This might even be tautological - to a lot of people, being a genius means being smart but weird/anti-social/whatever. But moreover, I think to some extent being a genius means being obviously different to those around you - essentially considered a ‘freak’, like being seven feet tall or something. They’re so obviously different to everyone they meet that either it becomes the focus of conversation, or the subject is studiously but obviously avoided. That alone could make people grow up a little unusual, I suspect.
It might be valuable in trying to answer this question to observe how such people interact in the company of their peers/equals, because in my experience a bunch of extreme nerds hanging out together is anything but antisocial.
ETA: I think I pretty much agree with zweisamkeit, whose post I somehow missed the first time.
Am I smart because I was socially alienated–because I made friends with books easily but not with people, and devoured more books in a week than most kids would read in a year? Or did I become socially alienated because I just liked books so much, and few other kids did?
Or is it that socializing requires a lot of going along with the herd in an unthinking way, which can be unbearable for smart people?
In any case, being trans doomed me to being a social alien, and would have left me nowhere to fit in at all, if not for my mental prowess qualifying me for membership in the geek guild–which was at least something, even though geeks were not valued or respected much back when I was in school. Geek chic didn’t take hold in the Zeitgeist until the dawn of the web era in the mid to late 1990s. But for me, socially, it was pretty much brain or nothing. I considered brains to be a good deal. At a discount, even.
Also: Why was there this assumption that intellect must always be uneroticized? I always thought that was bizarre, because it was obvious that intellects are sexier than anything.
Perhaps Smith is talking about a particular kind of smart, the hyper-specialized type. Smith, when you think of those very smart people, do they tend to be men and in technical fields? If so, it might be because they have a slight/moderate case of Asperger’s or autism or the social/nurture equivalent.
Also, a lot of people who are recognized as smart are excellent at figuring out systems. Systems and people tend to behave differently. There’s often a messy, unpredictable, fickle aspect to people that is seldom encountered in systems. Smart people who are good at logical systems are often at a loss when dealing with people, especially people who don’t share their personality.
Candyman:
Stephen Fry isn’t charismatic? He’s not a looker while not being ugly but what’s uncharismatic about him, besides being British?
The skill set for knowing the value of X or the names of all the phylums in evolutionary order is entirely different from that of knowing how to read people. People are confusing. People are unpredictable. People are subtle. If you know the characteristics of an insect (six legs, three body segments, two antennae) you will know if a given bug is an insect. Six legs yes, eight legs no. You’ll never find an adult anthropod that sometimes has six legs and sometimes has seven. It’s black and white. People are shades of grey, too much to memorise. Either you learn to unconsciously calculate social situations, the way you unconsciously calculate how to balance when you walk, or you sit there being confused.
I can tell you personally, learning the scienctific names for the four big cats is much simpler than having a conversation. Unless it’s a conversation about big cats. I’m quite good when it comes to random zoological/scientific tidbits.
Panthera onca, Panthera pardes, Pathera tigris, and Panthera Leo Leo
Okay, and…? I’m not saying Aspergers isn’t real, but there’s been a really irritating trend lately to excuse rudeness/social awkwardness or assholery/etc as “aspergers” (especially without any actual attempt at diagnosis from… y’know… a medical professional). Sometimes a socially-stunted person is just socially stunted.
Reminds me of a story: At my last workplace, I chatted with a male coworker about compatible partners. He said that there’s no way a man could have a partner that was smarter than him, in the same sense that men have to be taller, older, and/or make more money, too. It’d hurt the man’s ego too much. I responded that it was highly unlikely that I’d ever end up with a woman smarter than me just because of the odds, so I never had that problem.
I further posited that it wouldn’t bother me anyway if she were smarter than me. He insisted that it would…that I wouldn’t be able to stand it. I had to explain to him that I’d already mastered general knowledge. I know physics, biology, math, geography, history, etc. and that the only way for someone to be smarter than me is in a specialized field. I said that smart people tend to max out their “jack of all trades” intelligence and move on to specifics. And if you’re paired with someone that knows more about X topic than you do, it’s not threatening. You’ve got your bona fides and they have theirs- it’s no longer comparable.
So on to my point…I learned from this discussion that apparently average (or stupid) people view intellect as a competition. They’re generally insecure about it. They don’t want to be told where they rank on the scale and they especially don’t want to know that you’re ahead of them. Smart people, on the other hand, don’t care. I know that I know more about chess than Two Many Cats but I’d love to admit my ignorance of Roman/Persian conflict laying the foundation for today’s conflicts. To average people, an invitation to that conversation sounds like a challenge. To smart people, it’s an opportunity.
So why the social awkwardness? Well, the average people in the room think “Look at that asshole, strutting around like he’s better than us.” and the smart guy goes “Why did everyone just get so quiet? What’d I do?”
Indeed. It’s a tiresome “fact” that people just love to throw out there either to knock someone down a peg or to give themselves a “special snowflake” trait.
He’s very charismatic. I thought the point of bringing him up was to show that smart people aren’t always socially awkward. Stephen Fry is brilliant and very funny/well-spoken as well.
Like I said, my experience is biased. Most brilliant people I’ve known from schools have had some sort of syndrome or disorder, but then most people I’ve known from schools have had some disorder, period. And in my immediate family, book smarts and social awkwardness go hand in hand. So if you say that most smart people aren’t Aspies, I believe you. I just wouldn’t know personally.
Speaking of socially appropriate behavior, I have a genuine question. I hope it’s not too much of a hijack.
Is it considered acceptable to discuss one’s own high intelligence? I have noticed several people in this thread mention how smart they are and conversations they’ve had about their intelligence. When I was growing up, to mention one’s own intelligence–or any other ability, such as humor or art–was considered the height of arrogance. I was raised to always do my best, and to demonstrate my talents rather than tell others I had them. Essentially, leave the subjective adjectives–funny, smart, good looking, talented, etc–to others. Even mentioning in my earlier post that I’m fairly good at social situations made me feel a bit uncomfortable.
I’m asking this in all sincerity. I really don’t know if mentioning one’s own abilities is as conceited as I have been raised to believe. I’d love to hear some comments.
I think the reason people do it more online is because in real life you can sort of show without telling. But online it’s hard to know those things because you just see what people post. So if we knew SDMB members online we’d have a different social context that we don’t have here.
In real life? No, it’s not OK. It’s certainly conceited. On the internet, it’s still not OK, but there’s no repercussion. I’m sure some people have read my posts and thought me an arrogant prick for it, but I’m not here to please anybody like I am at, say, a birthday party or conference. I can “get away with it” here, so to speak. Then again, I’m an intelligence analyst. It’s right there in the name, so it comes up a bit more at work than it otherwise would.
On a personal note, I hate how you can’t state something good about yourself in real life without having to cancel it out my naming some arbitrary, unimportant shortcoming that you have. When I feel I have to compliment myself for whatever reason in real conversation, I always “restore my humility” by adding “no one’s ever accused me of being able to throw a football well, but…” to the beginning of the compliment. I hate that I have to do that when we’re not even remotely close to talking about football. It’s like I’m pandering to your insecurities. I resent it so much that I refuse to do it on the internet. I will not counter my “I’m gifted with regard to the topic at hand” with “but suck at this irrelevant thing”.
But FYI, that’s how you’d normally have to do it in social interactions.
What does “social awkward” mean? I’m not trying to be difficult, but I would like to discuss this for a moment.
Does socially awkward mean “not cool”? Not hip to the latest TV shows, popular gadgets, and clothing fashions? Introverted and quiet? Reserved? Slightly eccentric?
Or does it mean saying mean things unintentionally, being emotionally cold, being anxious around people, or being off-putting in some way?
I admit I’m like the former. It’s not that I don’t know how to be cool; it’s just I don’t want to be. I find most social conventions to be stupid. I find that most people who care about social conventions to be stupid too, and this feeling affects how I relate to them. Granted, I’m not a genuis–I’m guessing I’m just slightly above-average in intelligence–but I imagine that’s the case for these “socially awkward” smart people everyone’s talking about.
Most of the smart people I know are not social awkward when they are in their element, around people who are like them. And I would wager that most people are like this. Put a person with average intelligence in a roomful of Mensa members, and chances are they’ll appear “socially awkward”. It’s just that there are a whole lot more people with average intelligence than there are at the Mensa range. So there are more opportunities for smart people to appear “awkward” than there are for other people.
“Nerd” has the connotations of social awkwardness in addition to intelligence. There are tons of really smart people who also have social skills and IME, the vast majority of them aren’t thought of as “nerds” precisely because they have social skills.