Right, -10 points for reading comprehension.
WTF? I’m pretty sure he brought up Stephen Fry as a counterpoint to the socially awkward smart person stereotype.
I meant -1o points for my reading comprehension. You are right that he brought up Fry as an example of someone who is both smart and charismatic. I was wrong.
Whoa yeah, heaven help you if you mention how smart you are. This fact was pounded into me so hard for so many years, that it took frickin’ therapy for me to discover that I actually felt ashamed of my intelligence, and took pains to hide it. Of course, I resented having to do that, and that’s where a lot of my anger comes from. I still have problems with this.
One tip for smart types looking for small talk. Memorize a couple of interesting anecdotes to break the ice for whatever you’d like to steer the conversation to.
I like to spring Lincoln’s joke about McClellan’s latrine at Antietam on people. They seem to like it.
That doesn’t sound like someone gifted with general intelligence.
There are different intelligences, or different sorts of intelligence—or at least so the theory goes—and the sort of intelligence that makes one good at, say, logical reasoning or factual recall, isn’t the same as the sort that enables one to pick up social cues or manipulate people.
Being intelligent doesn’t keep you from understanding people or from the kind of “illogical” knowledge you mention.
But I think where some intelligent people go astray, especially those who are fairly young or fairly sheltered, is that they’re reasoning from insufficient data, often without realizing it.
I wonder. I believe that intelligence has an inherent, genetic component; and I believe that the traits that contribute to social awkwardness have an inherent, genetic component. And it may be that these two sorts of traits are genetically linked. It wouldn’t totally surprise me if scientists someday found clear evidence that they were, but neither would it totally surprise me if they found clear evidence that they are not.
At one time I would have wholeheartedly and enthusiastically agreed. No one ever denied I was smart; I went through school with the reputation of being “the smart kid.” (And, being smart, I skipped seventh grade, which sure as hell didn’t help my social awkwardness.) I spent too much of my life feeling isolated and lonely and miserable due in large part to lack of social abilities. Nowadays, though, I’m a much happier person, partly because I’ve been able to use my intelligence to help me learn some social skills, and to help me learn to compensate for my weaknesses and use my strengths.
I was actually thinking today about starting a poll to find out if people really believed this nonsense about smart people (well, academics/professors, anyway, since this is more easily definable, and I am one.)
Apparently, the OP does.
zweisamkeit has brilliantly described the mechanism for this confirmation bias.
People seem to be socially well adjusted among people of similar background and abillity. The perception of social awkwardness in ‘smart’ people may simply be the definition of ‘smart’ people as a small percentage of the population, who will have lead different lives than the large majority of ‘dumb’ people.
My experiences tell me that the ‘smart’ sorts are just as socially adept or awkward among their ‘peers’ as any other selective group would be within theirs.
One of my friends in the gifted and talented program specifically cultivated a less intelligent persona in order to become more popular. Over time, he actually became relatively less intelligent, since he focused on the social aspects of life. I personally think he went overboard.
And, no, it is not rude to discuss your intelligence or other skills–when it is relevant to the conversation. And, even then, it matters how you do it. You just have to counter the perception of being haughty with added (implied) statements of humility.
I wouldn’t say you override this on the Internet, but the dynamics of this board, where it is assumed that the members are above average intelligence, gives a lot more leeway. Just like it would if you were in a group of MENSA members.
Thank you for that post. I wept tears of joy.
I don’t think all smart people are socially awkward, but there is certainly a kernel of truth to the idea that intelligence and awkwardness go hand in hand.
I think part of this is a result of the attitudes of smart people themselves - often smart people have very specialized interests that seem so important to them that I think they can lose perspective on whether other people might find it important or even interesting. Then when they bring that topic up in conversation and other people don’t get it (or are just bored by it, which is often interpreted as not getting it), they sort of dismiss those people as complete dolts.
Someone else isn’t necessarily a moron just because they don’t understand, or are not interested in, a subject that you personally find fascinating. But if you relate to everyone around you in a way that suggests that you think they are utter idiots, I suspect it does not do much for your social skills. I don’t think most people can effectively hide their contempt for others as well as they may think they can.
Indeed, though I’d say social abilities outside a peer group are more telling.
But as you suggest, having contempt for people who don’t understand or aren’t interested in Topic X is where the real failure is occurring. If you relate to everyone around you in a way that suggests that you think they are utter idiots, I suspect you’re just not as smart as you think you are.
No argument here. I think the ‘contempt for everyone beneath me’ people are split between those who are actually smart and those who just *think *that they’re smart. In fact, those that think that they’re smart but are actually average and just egotistical may account for more of the observed social awkwardness than actual smart people. I rather expect that about 90% of the worlds population would rate themselves as smarter than average, and obviously they can’t all be right.
I agree. I’m just not sure that intelligence makes one less able in inter-peer relations. I think there might be the confirmation bias readily found in disproportionate groupings.
Thought this over some more.
What immediately came up in my mind upon seeing the thread title turns out to have been not at all what the OP was thinking. It’s telling that for me this topic brings up issues from childhood and adolescence. I have a grip on the experiences of rape and abuse that happened to me when I was an adult. They don’t mess me up. I feel strong. But childhood experiences of rape & abuse are where I still need a lot of work. Where I’ve been doing a lot of work all these years later. Once I’d become an adult, in an adult world, I learned just fine how to function in society and get along with people. The more maturity I grew into, the more socially skilled I became. I genuinely like people and (as long as I feel safe in a given situation) have no trouble at all making pleasant conversation with strangers from all walks of life. My intellect has taken me to contact with many countries, languages, cultures, religions, social classes, and developed in me a strongly humanist ethics, all of which allows me to connect with other humans. No worries nowadays.
But when I saw the OP I forgot about my adult strengths and immediately flashed back to my childhood traumas.
Now I see that the question has brought up a lot of different perspectives. A lot of people are taking it as a form of arrogance on the part of the smart person, who is cast in quite a villainous light: “contempt for everyone beneath me…” Really? My angle is 180 from this. I like people. Instead of looking down on people, my challenge is always to not hate myself, to not feel myself inferior.
Far from feeling superior to people, my actual problem is fear of people. Which again goes back to childhood experiences, when fear was literally beaten/pounded/stomped into me, to drive home the message that who I am is no good. I was brought up on a steady diet of fear, and this is at the root of my history of social isolation. To the extent that I’ve overcome this legacy and gone on to lead a wholesome, socially active, intellectually fulfilling adult life is attributable to my use of intelligence for personal growth.
People can be highly intelligent, but not particularly gregarious or passionate. They may not even care about talking with other people. With many of them, talking to them feels like talking to a robot that’s searching for the appropriate response.
Part of being interesting is being interested. You can’t just act like a data repository regurgitating facts and acting as if everyond around you needs to step it up a notch just to deserve your attention.
I think when people are younger, they don’t really have a sense of perspective. They see the little brains having fun and going to parties all the time while the smart kids are bogged down studying all the time. To a certain extent, it seems like the reward for being smart is more studying, more homework, more work in general. Sort of like a pie eating contest where the winner gets more pie.
I’m really thinking more about my observations of other people, rather than myself.
That could be it, or it could be that smart people, especially very conscientious smart people, know that most people don’t care about their specialized interests, based on the ambient discussions in their environment. They may notice that the level of discourse in the workplace breakroom never goes above triviliaties such as sports or TV shows, so they know that trying to steer the conversation to anything intellectual would be a waste.
I’ve tried to do this. I’ve suffered through all kinds of boring, stupid conversational topics just to “fit in”, so after awhile I feel entitled to talk about what I want to. Which might be an interesting article I read in a newspaper, or a hypothesis being proposed in the latest nonfiction that I just checked out of the library. Or I’ll throw out a crazy hypothetical, kind of like what Skald does on the board except not involving rape. It’s not that people look at me with dumb looks or that I’m greeted with silence. It’s just that the conversation quickly lapses back into “easier” topics…or topics that just don’t interest me. When this happens, I retreat…I go to my office during lunch and read. This gets me labeled as “anti-social” (goodness, the word is “asocial”, people). Or perhaps “socially awkward”.
I don’t think I’m socially awkward most times, though. I just get tired of fitting in sometimes. It may be that when I get tired, I simply look awkward.
Most people aren’t that cool.
Indeed.
Being smart is not a crime, and contrary to the Persecuted Nerd Myth, no one will ever hold your intelligence against you, save a few inexplicable outliers. There are people who will the fact that you’re a woman with short hair against you, or that you have your ears pierced, but really, no sane person gives a shit. Being a pompous know-it-all is what’s a crime, and the reason people won’t like you. Being a weirdo geek whose social-cue-o-meter is broken will cause people to dislike you, not your smarts.
I hate chiming in with “confirmation bias,” because that’s cheap, but it really is the right answer. I went to a textbook nerd school, and whenever I tell people this, they rapid-fire off a series of increasingly silly questions that seem like stereotypes they learned from watching “Saved by the Bell.” Did everyone wear pocket protectors? Was everyone a genius? Do you know rocket science? Did you ever meet Bill Gates? Wrong school and wrong decade. While it is true that the kids I went to college with were, on average, much brighter than people I meet everywhere else, they weren’t any more socially awkward. Some were downright gregarious, while most were just ordinary people in terms of social skills, and yes, we had the contingent of hard core nerds who were better at nerd stuff that interaction with other humans, but I also know a lot of morons who are much better at stalking the latest shitty indie band than they are dealing with other people.
Two Many Cats, when I multi-quoted your post, this was the point I had in mind, then I went off the rails because I got distracted by something shiny. Another thing that is a crime is bragging. Don’t ask me why, I don’t make the rules, but I try to be aware of what they are because I like being invited to parties. Talking about how smart you are isn’t an offense because nobody likes smart people; it’s an offense because no one likes braggarts.
Thanks for the laugh.
Yeah, sometimes that’s exactly what’s happening. My interests are very different from a lot of the people I interact with, and my trains of thought tend to jump to a different track pretty easily, regardless of how engaged in a subject I am. If I just pop out with what I’m thinking, it’s generally something one would consider socially awkward. I mean, you can’t just go around saying things like “I do not now, nor have I ever cared about anything that happens on American Idol,” or “You know, there was an Amerind tribe who used to do something fairly similar…” or “Ooh, that dog has a puffy tail!” or “Actually, if you look at the statistics…” People respond poorly to that sort of thing; you have to gin up something that’s relevant, non-judgmental, not too intellectual, which ideally won’t encourage further conversation about something that’s boring the tits right off you, and you have to make sure you don’t use any fancy words when saying it.
It’s a total damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation–if you say whatever springs immediately to mind, you’re labeled socially awkward for saying inappropriate things, and if you take a moment to come up with something appropriate, you’re socially awkward because it’s like talking to a robot. It’s easier to just shut up and let people label you as anti-social.