I’m in the middle of an argument with a friend who calls himself a “heretical Catholic.” He maintains several beliefs that I was under the impression were not part of the Catholic dogma, beliefs in fact contrary to that dogma.
I was under the impression that in order to be Catholic, one had to believe in the Pope as Christ’s Vicar on Earth, and his technical infallibility. I also thought that the Catholic Church claimed a monopoly on salvation for, if not just the Catholic Church, at least for Christianity. To get to the questions, does a Catholic have to believe in Papal Infallibility? Is a Greek or Russian Orthodox Catholic, as my friend claims? Can one pick and choose parts of Catholicism to believe and still be a Catholic within the church, or could they be excommunicated and thereby damned? In short, is there a specific set of beliefs one must hold within the Catholic hierarchy, as opposed to those just part of general Christianity, necessary for them to be saved?
I would like to point out that this argument is strictly over Roman Catholic doctrine, not over the rightness of any belief or any greater religious theme.
Digging back into my time in Catholic grade school—which was shortly after the Dark Ages—my recollection is that (Catholic) Baptism is one of the three Sacraments that leave an indelible mark on one’s soul (the others, in case you were wondering, being Confirmation and Holy Orders [Ordination]). By that principle, once you’re in, you’re in to stay. Even an excommunicate is technically still a Catholic, though separated from the Body of Christ.
Of course, the thinking may have changed in the years since. If so, I’m sure that someone (such as the redoubtable tomndebb) will be along to set things straight. In any case, there will more than likely be more detail added ere long.
As a devout catholic, I shall divulge as much info as possible… The Apostle’s Creed gives some founding beliefs of Catholics. To see all of the beliefs a Catholic believes you should read the Catechism. To specifically address you questions:
The Pope is the head of the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.
Catholicism, specifically Roman Catholic, requires belief in the infallibility oif the Pope, and accepting and receiving the Seven Sacrements…and this along with the Pope is the great divider for the Roman Catholic Church:
I’m gonna try to get all these… 1-7 are in thise order I believe:
Baptism
Holy Communion
Confirmation
Reconciliation (forgiveness “confession”)
Marriage
Sacrement of the Sick
Sacrement of Last Rights
Pope is head and infallible.
Of course, there are numerous other rules and ‘mortal’ sins that would realistically prevent someone from being Roman Catholic, whether the ‘claim’ to be Roman Catholic or not. In fact, most Roman Catholics are NOT Roman Catholics because they break major tennants of the Church, but just ignore the Pope’s rules:
birth coontrol…premarital sex…NOT PRACTICING ALL THE SACREMENTS…divorce…and lots of others.
Actually, that’s not true. As Otto mentioned, if someone is baptized a Catholic, he remains a Catholic, forever. Sin, no matter how mortal, even if it leads to excommunication, doesn’t change the person’s status as Catholic.
Actually, what you’re stating seems to be what’s known as the Donatist heresy. The Donatists believed that there were sins that would render past baptism or ordination invalid. They rejected those priests and bishops they saw as “impure” due to past sins, and practised rebaptism of those who had commited mortal sins.
Philster, it’s pretty hard to receive both the Sacrament of Matrimony as well as the Sacrament of Holy Orders. You’ve combined “of the Sick” and “Last Rights.”
Munch, no, I did not combine the Sacrement of the Sick AKA “Annointing of Sick” and “Last Rights”, since they are clearly 6 and 7 respectively. They are separate and that is accurate…as they really are separate scarements.
Sacrement of Matrimony can be subsituted for Sacrement of Holy Orders, but the Seven Sacraments stand for what they are. Sacrement of Holy orders is not an essential sacrement - look at it that way.
Roman Catholics: In reality, divorce = excommunication from the church.
I guess technically, you can be Roman Catholic and be ex-communicated, but essentially, your Roman Catholocism is cooked, considering the crux of what Roman Catholicism is all about.
“Annointing of the Sick” and “Last Rites” are the same sacrament. It just used to be called “Last Rites”, but inthe '60s, I believe, the name was changed to “The Annointing of the Sick”
I don’t know what you mean when you say that Holy Orders isn’t an “essential” sacrament. It’s a valid and neccesary sacrament in the Catholic Church, as it’s the way that the teaching and pastoral authority of the Church is transferred. If you mean that it isn’t essential that an individual Catholic participate in Holy Orders, that’s true, but the same is also true for Matrimony. A Catholic is free to either marry or not, as he or she chooses.
A google search came up with about a gazillion links of the 7 Sacraments, and most of them labeled this Sacrament as “Extreme Unction.” They also labeled Matrimony and Holy Orders as separate and distinct.
In the Roman Catholic Church, the seven sacraments are:
Baptism
Confirmation
Holy Eucharist
Annointing of the Sick
Matrimony
Penance
Holy Orders
There is no requirement for a Roman Catholic to receive all of the sacraments, and, indeed, it’s a rare man that could do so, although it’s certainly possible. Nor does commission of a mortal sin remove Catholicity.
The Baltimore Catechism called it ‘Extreme Unction’. The newly-issued Catechism of the Catholic Church calls it ‘Annointing of the Sick’ - and also refers to Penance as ‘Reconciliation’.
The change in terminology does not change the number, purpose, of efficacy of the sacraments.
Catholic Theology suggests that there are seven sacraments:
Baptism
Eucharist
Confirmation
Penance
Marriage
Holy Orders
Anointing of the Sick
As for receiving all seven, a classic example would be a Deacon who could be married and then ordained as deacon. And, of course, a widower experiencing a call to the Priesthood would legitimately have received all seven sacraments.
One can be a Catholic in schism, i.e., not in communion with the Pope (who, by the way, is only considered to teach infallibly when he speaks intentionally ex cathedra on a topic of faith or morals), and presumably there is a line before which one is a heretical Catholic and beyond which one has exceeded heresy and can no longer be considered a Catholic.
It is also important to note that Christian thought speaks of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which many people not members of the RCC accept as the universal mystical body of all believers, including but not limited to those in communion with the Pope.
Thank you for adding to my vocabulary. I was baptized R.C. as an infant and was through most of catechism before mom pulled the family out of the R.C. church. I presume “Caholocity” is an all or nothing property so my becoming a Lutheran has no effect on it. We say the Apolstle’s Creed and Nicene Creed too.
I was taught back in the day (raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools between ages 6 - 21) that divorced Catholics were not permitted to receive communion, but they were not excommunicated. As ASD correctly says, a divorced Catholic who remarries cannot technically marry inside the Catholic Church and may be excommunicated. That marriage will not be recognized by the church. That’s why so many of the Kennedys have had to pay off their archbishop to get their annulments. Not one of them has had appropriate grounds to get annulments, IMHO. But $$$ talks.
Incorrect. In fact, one of the prerequisites to receiving an annulment from the Catholic Church is that the couple shall have already gone through a civil divorce.
There are lots of things that make a person Catholic. The first is being baptized within the Catholic Church. My fiancee (Padeye) and I were just discussing the fact that the Catholic Church has never recognized as legitimate baptism within any other Christian demonination; many other Christian churches, however, accept Catholic baptism as legitimate. The expectation is that the individual will also later complete the requirements to receive the sacraments of Reconciliation (confession), Holy Communion and Confirmation. The other sacraments are not required. If a Catholic gets married, it is expected (s)he will do so within the Catholic Church by a priest. If this person gets married by a judge, a rabbi or a minister of any other Christian faith, the marriage is considered invalid by the Catholic Church. Another expectation is that they have to believe the Pope to be Christ’s Vicar on earth and that he speaks for God when he speaks “ex cathedra” (from the throne) on matters of faith. Catholics are expected to attend Mass at least once a year, and we were taught that it had to be at least Easter service (of course, given that I attended Catholic schools, I went to church 6X per week while I was in elementary school… how’s that for overdosing?). Finally, the Nicene and Apostles’ creeds pretty much spell out what Catholics are expected to believe. Did I miss anything? Has any of this changed in recent years?