What makes your faith or trust in God/Hashem/Allah/Bhagwan waver?
For me, acts of great destruction, whether great tidal waves or the massacre of schoolchildren, will do it. It’s hard to view God as in control when such atrocities happen. But, of course, there’s no reason for them not to happen either. And so I get confused and go back to my shell of swirling religious philosophies that others might call the rantings of a madman (and, who knows, they might be right). This is not to say my conviction of God’s existence wavers: my willingness to pledge allegiance to Him, to serve Him, to honor and love and respect Him do waver.
For those who don’t believe in God or have nothing to do with Him, I suppose this issue doesn’t concern you much: there’s no God you believe in or that is active in your life in whom your faith, trust, and awe might waver. Lucky y’all.
WRS - if I become a god (a la the Left-hand Path), would my trust and faith in me waver then too?
Greed, and strong desires. Extreme comfort, and self indulgence. Pretty much anything that supports my own weaknesses and my desire to be self important. When things actually challenge my spirit, I am more likely to notice its limits.
Bothered by tragedy doesn’t have any necessary correlation with having that botheration have any relationship with one’s interaction with the divine. I would have to believe in omnipotence, omnibenevolence, and probably monotheism (and its semi-corellary, universality) for tragedy to challenge my interactions with the gods.
That the gods are limited, cranky, have personal preferences about who they’ll invest time and effort in, and may be in conflict with other gods on top of all that isn’t a revelation or a challenge; it’s what I’ve always known.
A long time ago, I started wondering about how an omnipotent, omniscient, and all good god would allow suffering. And suffering of innocent seemed particularly depraved for a diety.
Now those with unwavering faith may say that the suffering may somehow be necessary for mankind. But an omnipotent god and an all-good god could have created mankind in such a way that they would have progressed without having suffering. (Unless he is a sick fucking bastard, which would contradict the “all-good” claim.)
So basic on-goings of the world made me waver in my belief in a Judeo-Christian god quite some time ago.
What made my faith and trust waver was discovering that all organized religions are nothing more than elaborate con games. It’s all a lie and I don’t like it when people lie to me.
I now place my faith in myself. So far, I haven’t let me down.
My faith wavers most when I see success of evil men. However the fact that evil exists is a consequence of our having free will, so the wavering does not last long.
True faith does not waiver. The tsunami tragedy, growing more tragic with each hour, might have those weak of faith begin to question God.
I personally think He is interested in our response to the tragedy. Those dead are already in a better place - it’s how we care for the living victims that will truly test our faith.
My faith (not very strong to begin with) died the day my father died, when I was 11 years old. It has never came back.
That said, my father was an atheist, my mother a little religious (raised in a religious home). I am a strict atheist/humanist and believe in holding yourself accountable for what you do. I live my life by the golden rule, that’s all I need.
I am sorry, but what bunch of non-sense. Why would an omnipotent god create such horrible circumstances to test our will? Why wouldn’t he use his omnipotence to create a senario that would test our faith without the suffering. (Unless he isn’t omnipotent and all believers have been lied to).
And if you believe that those who are dead are in a better place, then I suggest you eschew all medical care, use of car seat belts, looking both directions when crossing the street so you too can be “in a better place.”
Christian here.
My faith has been wavering for quiet some time. As for why, well, that’s difficult. It’s a number of factors.
The biggest part of it is, it’s obvious to me that we live in a natural world, and everything that happens is natural. Yes, I’m being a little redundant here, but my point is, I feel that God has nothing to do with what goes on down here. I do believe in the occasion miracle, but I think they’re very rare.
I was typing a big post, but then figured it would be boring, so I’ll try to summarize my points.
Disasters - These aren’t caused by God because you can’t convince me that all those people deserve it.
Being saved from a disaster - Sorry, but what makes your life more valuable than those who were hurt/injured/killed before you.
God created you that way - My wife was born with muscular dystrophy, should I be upset with the MDA because they’re trying to thwart Gods will? I don’t think so.
If it’s good, praise God, if it’s bad, blame us - A concept in many Christian denominations, it’s even somewhat present in mine. Sorry, but human beings are capable of good and bad.
God is, and apparently like to be, mysterious In the bible there’s all sorts of mentions of God and his angels visiting people. Nowadays, let’s face it, if somebody tells you they had a vision, it would mean that they were either very tired, or drunk/high, hallucinating, or someone pulled a prank on them. I’m sure that there are true visions, but again, I also think that they’re very rare.
So, in closing, we live in a natural world where things happen, not by the will of God, but naturally. In other words, God has little or nothing to do with goes on here on a day to day basis. God demands we believe in him and give him total loyalty, but yet he won’t show himself to us, or give us signs, in fact, he never really doesn’t anything concrete to give us reason to believe in him. It’s all about faith. Sorry, but if I was an all powerful being, I would just tell a bunch of men, “Go forth and spread my word. Of course I won’t be there physically with you, but you’ll feel my presence. And if people ask for signs, tell them that’s not the way I work, they’ll just have to take your word for it that I exist. I don’t need to prove myself to anybody.”
And for all you Christians who say God is with us now, then why are we waiting for Jesus to come back?
Anyway, I’d better stop before this post become even longer and more boring.
I’ve never had the huge philosophical problem many do with the presence of evil or suffering. On the philosophical level, I find the explanation of a fallen world where rain falls on the evil and the good alike to be a reasonable one. On the emotional level dramatic moments – for good or for ill – seem to invite the sense that something important is happening here, that lives are being lost, saved, changed. That, for me, inspires hope for a divine plan, not the opposite.
My doubts, and they are many, tend to come when nothing happens, when day runs into day with no note of grace or hope and it seems nothing of note ever has or ever will happen.
I’m with the OP. I accept that God is omnipotent, but the only “cite” that I have that God is a loving God is the bible. Having pretty well been forced to the conclusion that the bible is not the divinely directed word of God but men’s fallible interpretation of His word at best, leaves me pretty well feeling lost.
I’ve been thinking about that question lately. I don’t think my viewpoint is any more remarkable than anybody else’s.
I think part of faith is a healthy, rational amount of doubt–blind fanaticism to the point of excluding reason is wrong–and I do have moments (periods) of doubt. The recent tsunami left me shaken and wondering about the nature of God.
For me, the biggest question is (I think) the biggest question anybody has: why do innocent people suffer, and on such a large scale sometimes (the tsunami, the Holocaust, etc.)? What kind of morality allows for such a random perversion of justice?
It’s a question that doesn’t come with an easy answer. I still believe–I think I always will–but it’s a question that’s troubling and perplexing, and I can’t answer it yet. Maybe we’re not meant to know why? Flanery O’Connor once said that “a God you understood would be less than yourself”, and I think she’s right.
That’s the biggest part of faith: trust, and keeping faith alive in the midst of despair and confusion. It’s the hardest struggle of all.
Well, given that my view of god is that it/he is a non-sentient energy… really, not much. Though it may be important to note that I’m perfectly happy with the thought that god exists only in my head. I really don’t care who else denies/feels it.