What PC to buy?

In My Humble Opinion
1

So, I had this great plan where I was going to order all of the parts for a new PC and build it myself in order to reestablish my geek cred, but my dad pointed out that, being in the military and studying a rather difficult foreign language (and the fair chance that, if I should fail to properly learn this language to the satisfaction of the Air Force, that I might find myself learning how to be Security Forces), I perhaps have better things to do with my time than assemble a computer from parts.

So, I need a pre-made PC, but a good one. Basically, I’m looking for something solidly powerful and game-capable, running on Windows XP. Bonus points for future upgradability and maybe even a tendency for a minimum of pre-installed crud. Any suggestions?

2

I think Dell are the last big company still making anything with XP still on it. Any ideas as to a price range?

3

[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin]
I think Dell are the last big company still making anything with XP still on it. Any ideas as to a price range?
[/QUOTE]

I’d like to keep it under 2 grand total, including a good monitor (a friend of mine recommended that I get a flatscreen with the various TV inputs, so I can save myself the cost and space of a TV set later down the line, and I understand those run around $500 and up)

4

The PC Decrapifier will take care of any pre-installed crud.

5

I don’t know about the price point, but Mr. Athena and I have been giddy about Falcon Northwest. The computers are really nice, but what’s better is their support and customer service. Get this: you call them, and 90% of the time a real human picks up the phone and answers your question. Seriously. It’s like calling a friend. “Hey Joe, my speakers are giving me a little feedback, what do I need to fix them?” “Well, let’s start with making sure the cables are tight” etc. etc.

The times that a real person hasn’t answered, I’ve been put on hold for maybe a couple minutes, then a real person answers.

6

Another Dell vote here. We just ordered another one this last summer. We’ve never had a problem with either of the Dells we’ve owned. Additionally, they cut us a price break on this last Dell. All told, I think we spent around $4,000 on this machine, but we have the whammy jammy video card, and other upgrades. Plus, we ordered some Office products on it.

The Dell we ordered was the XPS and it runs beautifully for games. We even run Bioshock on it with no problems. We specifically asked that they install Windows XP, not Vista, and they installed it with no problem.

The Falcon Northwests are great, but they are spendy. Maybe someday.

7

Why do you say you don’t have time to build a PC?

I bought my PC from parts and assembled it myself with absolutely ZERO experience in doing anything of the sort. I didn’t even know what a motherboard looked like, let alone how it worked. I had, literally, never even opened a PC case beforehand. I got help from a magazine with a step by step picture tutorial. All told it took about two hours total to build my PC, from start to power up.

I assume you know you’ll get about twice the performance for the cost if you build it, and you’ll get absolutely zero preinstalled crud with it. No warranty is the biggest downside I can think of, but I haven’t had any trouble, myself.

8

Dell vote here as well.

Also, these days a Mac makes a pretty good PC.

9

One of the reasons we went with Falcon over Dell for this round of computers is the abysmal track record of the Dells we’ve bought. I bought a $3K Dell laptop in about 2001; it was a paperweight by 2005 (the screen simply died, and replacing it cost more than the laptop was worth.)

We also have 2 other desktop Dells which have performed OK, but the lack of upgradability due to funky proprietary Dell parts and their abysmal tech support record has very much cautioned me away from ever buying a Dell again.

I used to be a big Dell supporter, but nowadays they’re the WalMart of computers it seems.

10

[QUOTE=Athena]
One of the reasons we went with Falcon over Dell for this round of computers is the abysmal track record of the Dells we’ve bought. I bought a $3K Dell laptop in about 2001; it was a paperweight by 2005 (the screen simply died, and replacing it cost more than the laptop was worth.)

We also have 2 other desktop Dells which have performed OK, but the lack of upgradability due to funky proprietary Dell parts and their abysmal tech support record has very much cautioned me away from ever buying a Dell again.

[/QUOTE]

I bought a $2000 Dell laptop in 2002. I’m using that same laptop, today. Not even a dead pixel to note. I’d say that a good lifetime for a computer these days is probably 3-5 years, your laptop seems to have had a good run at it.

I can understand the lack of upgradeability, it’s a serious downside. I wanted to get a new CD drive to replace to original one that I got with my laptop, and the cost of the same part, five years later, is the same as it was buying it new in 2002. It’s beyond stupid.

But I’m appalled anyone could say Dell has bad customer service, though. That’s like saying the weather is great in Antarctica, it defies reason. I’ve had absolutely nothing but positive experiences with their customer support, even when I had no idea what I was doing. Perhaps you had a bad experience or two, but “abysmal”? That’s hyperbole.

11

What “funky” parts in a Dell desktop would be un-upgradable? The Dell desktop (tower, I assume that’s what you mean by “desktop”) PC in front of me has PCIe and PCI slots, something like 6 USB ports, and four SATA connectors for HDs. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, and you meant the parts in the laptop?

12

How about almost building our own pc? You can buy barebones kits at places Tiger Direct and Newegg that usually come with case, power supply, motherboard, processor and sometimes memory all ready assembled and then you just purchase video card, DVD burner, monitor, etc. separately. If you already own a copy of XP and a keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc. you save lots of bucks and have the satisfaction of somewhat putting it together yourself (plus most cases look pretty cool compared to a Dell’s).

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=31&name=Barebone-Kits

13

The only thing with building it myself is that if the computer parts aren’t waiting for me when I get back to my base after I return from leave, then they’ll probably turn up once I start classes again a few days later, at which point I’ll be in class from 8AM until 4PM, PT for an hour in the evening, and eating and studying somewhere in there (especially since I’ll have a major test coming up a week after I return to class). At the moment, just getting a computer in the box seems like it’ll be at least a bit simpler and less time-consuming. Also, the only spare computer parts I have lying around my dorm room at the moment are a hard drive and a mouse (giving my gently used laptop to my mom for Christmas).

14

You can configure a very nice pc at Cyperpower
, and they’ll put XP on it for you instead of Vista.

15

[QUOTE=EsotericEnigma]
I bought a $2000 Dell laptop in 2002. I’m using that same laptop, today. Not even a dead pixel to note. I’d say that a good lifetime for a computer these days is probably 3-5 years, your laptop seems to have had a good run at it.
[/QUOTE]

Then we disagree. I think that a top-of-the line laptop should last more than the 3.5 years it did. It might not run all the latest cool games, but it should be functional. Mine died dramatically, and the Dell brand parts required to fix it were crazy expensive.

3-5 years for the lifetime of a computer? I think that’s just crazy. There’s no moving parts in a computer other than the hard drive. My experience is that computers can and do last indefinitely; other than my dead laptop, every computer I’ve ever owned has been replaced because technology had advanced to a point that they were could no longer run the software I needed them to run. Never because they simply quit working.

[QUOTE=EsotericEnigma]
But I’m appalled anyone could say Dell has bad customer service, though. That’s like saying the weather is great in Antarctica, it defies reason. I’ve had absolutely nothing but positive experiences with their customer support, even when I had no idea what I was doing. Perhaps you had a bad experience or two, but “abysmal”? That’s hyperbole.
[/QUOTE]

Back in the late 90s, Dell service was great. I had no problems with them. Fast forward to 2002-2005 or so, and every time I called them I got stuck on hold for 20 minutes only to be transferred to a person who I couldn’t understand, insisted that I go through all the idiot questions (“is the computer plugged in?” “Please reboot it”, etc) even though I was sure of what my problem/question was and didn’t want to waste another 15 minutes after the 20 I spent on hold doing diagnostics I already had done, and ultimately never really did help me fix the problem. Heck, forget my last two complaints; sitting on hold for 20 minutes to talk to a human is bad enough.

I call Falcon, a real person picks up the phone. I explain my problem to them, they ask me a couple questions that are not completely scripted, establish my level of competency, and fix my problem. I’ve even called them expecting to buy stuff from them (more memory) and have them talk me out of it because they didn’t think it would be worth it based on what I was trying to fix.

[QUOTE=squeegee]
What “funky” parts in a Dell desktop would be un-upgradable?
[/QUOTE]

The Dells I have have a proprietary power supply that can’t be increased over 250 watts. If I remember correctly, it’s a proprietary motherboard as well. Pain in the ass.

Granted, Falcons aren’t cheap. But I’m not a simple home user, either. My computer is my livelihood, and the money lost from being down for one day more than makes up the difference in price between a Dell and a Falcon.

16

[QUOTE=Athena]

The Dells I have have a proprietary power supply that can’t be increased over 250 watts. If I remember correctly, it’s a proprietary motherboard as well. Pain in the ass.
[/QUOTE]

IIRC, Dell has moved away from this. With Raguleader being in the military, he should check around to see if there’s not a program in which he can get a PC through a military discount. There might be some way he could get a Dell via a military program which would qualify him as a “business customer” and then he’d not have to talk to Mr./Ms. Incomprehensible in India. (Dell’s had to relocate their business customers call centers back in the US because of complaints that the folks in India couldn’t be understood.)

17

One more proprietary thing that I just remembered: This didn’t happen to me, but to my sister-in-law. She bought a Dell printer with a Dell laptop, only to find out when it arrived that it only accepted Dell brand ink cartridges that had to be ordered from Dell. Nothing like running out of ink and not being able to run to the store to buy some more.

The fact that Dell used to be such a cool company and never did any of this stuff is what really gets my goat. I owned lots of Dells through the 90s, and bought them because of their customer service and lack of proprietary parts. Then they changed all that, and they lost me as a customer. Maybe they’re getting better, as Tuckerfan mentions, but I’ll wait for a while to verify that before diving back onto the Dell bandwagon myself.

18

[QUOTE=Athena]
The fact that Dell used to be such a cool company and never did any of this stuff is what really gets my goat. I owned lots of Dells through the 90s, and bought them because of their customer service and lack of proprietary parts. Then they changed all that, and they lost me as a customer. Maybe they’re getting better, as Tuckerfan mentions, but I’ll wait for a while to verify that before diving back onto the Dell bandwagon myself.
[/QUOTE]

The situations you describe pretty much coincide with Michael Dell stepping away from the company and turning the day-to-day operations to someone else. The stock promptly nose dived and Dell’s had to step back into his former position. I don’t know that he’s completely turned the company back to the way it was, but I do know that he’s corrected some of the biggest problems.

However, if you want a reason to not by a Dell, I can give it to you: They use “perma-temps” to build their PCs. All but a handful of the employees in their plant here are temps. Dell’s policy is to work them 179 days (1 day short of the 180 day legal limit), fire them, and then hire them back the next day (still as a temp). Why no one’s sued the piss out of them for doing this, I’ve no idea.

19

[QUOTE=Athena]
3-5 years for the lifetime of a computer? I think that’s just crazy. There’s no moving parts in a computer other than the hard drive. My experience is that computers can and do last indefinitely; other than my dead laptop, every computer I’ve ever owned has been replaced because technology had advanced to a point that they were could no longer run the software I needed them to run. Never because they simply quit working.
[/QUOTE]

Don’t forget the fans. And if a computer lives long enough, any essential part that malfunctions kills the computer. This happened to a friend of mine recently, actually. His computer is so old that replacement parts for it aren’t sold or even made anymore. Even though his computer is probably simple to fix, it’s essentially dead.

You’ve said yourself that you have bought several Dells, and only one of them ever quit working altogether. And that was after three and a half years. And because the screen died, not the actual computer. That’s a great track record.

I won’t damn Dell for their tech support catering to the lowest common denominator, they’re large enough and successful enough that they have to. They’re also large enough that if my computer dies, they’ll send me a brand new replacement, free of charge (this happened). I’m happy with that solution, you might not be. It’s a trade-off, I guess.

And to the OP: don’t buy a Dell printer. Stupid, stupid, stupid ink…

20

[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
However, if you want a reason to not by a Dell, I can give it to you: They use “perma-temps” to build their PCs. All but a handful of the employees in their plant here are temps. Dell’s policy is to work them 179 days (1 day short of the 180 day legal limit), fire them, and then hire them back the next day (still as a temp). Why no one’s sued the piss out of them for doing this, I’ve no idea.
[/QUOTE]
Got a cite for that? Not because I don’t believe you – I do, and want to know more. But googling Dell and Permatemps seems to gaggle up a bunch of hits on that 1992 lawsuit that Microsoft settled (example here), I’d guess because there’s a Dell advertisement on every page on the freakin’ internet. I’m also confused on how that “fire them every n-days” trick could work after the MS settlement, but I’m not an labor lawyer. Thanks in advance.