What peoples of the world have a strong national identity but no strong urge for independence?
I’m thinking of peoples like the Puerto Ricans (with about 5% voting for independence in plebiscites) or the Welsh (various polls show anywhere from 18% to 34% support for independence). I’m thinking of peoples who would have a persuasive claim to independence if they wanted it.
What other peoples fit this description, and what factors have dampened their interest in independence?
The Druze of Israel, perhaps - if one defines “strong national identity” generously:
The Druze minority in Israel is not monolithic; though all Druze throughout the world are bound together through shared religion, a tenet of that religion is dogmatic loyalty to the host state. The Druze of the Galilee, for instance, are considered model citizens, with a near-100% conscription rate to the IDF, and are significant contributors to the political and economic sectors of Israeli society. Only a minority of the Druze living in the Golan, however, are Israeli citizens, and most of them do not serve in the army. Since the Golan Heights is still not recognized internationally as part of sovereign Israel, the Druze living there are torn between two loyalties. The younger residents of Majdal Shams have mostly claimed Israeli citizenship, while the older generation, remembering their pre-1967 identity as Syrian citizens, are markedly colder towards Israel.
The value of loyalty to the government of their host country is a foundational element of the Druze identity. To be Druze is to be without any specific country, but to also be staunchly allegiant to one’s hosts. This allegiance actually preserves the Druze’s independence from other peoples: they are essentially attached to no one specific state.
The Sami of northern Sweden and Norway probably fit the bill. There doesnt seem to be a strong Sami independence movement, maybe because there aren’t many Sami, and living in Sweden or Norway is pretty decent.
Texans. I’d also add Southerners as well.
I mentioned that these peoples should have “a persuasive claim to independence.” A better way to say that might be: they should be able to form a viable state.
The Puerto Ricans, in particular, are striking examples because they are effectively standing in the way of their own independence.
Arguably, a great example would be the Province of Quebec. There’s no question that the Francophones of Quebec feel a strong sense of national identity based on language and culture, which is officially recognized by the federal government and reflected in many Quebec institutions. For example, Quebec is the only province that collects its own income tax and requires residents to file Quebec income tax returns in addition to the federal ones, and the only province in which the provincial legislature is known as the “National Assembly”. Provincial government institutions that normally fly both the Canadian flag and the provincial flag in Quebec fly only the Quebec fleur-de-lis. It has also on occasion attempted to enter international sports competitions. and become all huffy when its bid was rejected because it’s not a country and so doesn’t qualify.
The only “arguably” part here is whether or not there is currently a strong urge for independence. Quebec has had two referendums on independence, in 1980 and 1995. I’d say that no, the fever seems to have faded, but only because Quebec continues to be granted extraordinary powers to function as a specially privileged body within the Canadian confederation.
I was wondering about the Javanese people.
They account for almost 40% of all Indonesians, have a long history, a culture that enjoys some prestige in the region, and due to their demographics have a strong presence in government, the military and trade.
To me those are two very different ideas such that this post completely turns the OP on its ear. Not complaining; that’s certainly your right as OP.
The former is about historical and current treatment by the government and people of country(ies) in which they’re embedded. That’s a social question. While the latter is almost entirely about an economy and to a lesser extend political viability. That’s a practical question.
In fact substantially all the independence movements today have the issue that socially some meaningful, albeit minority, percentage of the group wants to be independent, but it’s mildly or even wildly impractical. Off top of head, the Scots, Quebeckers, Catalans, and the Puerto Ricans all fall into this category. There are certainly more. Hell, the UK itself is now learning the extent of impracticality of independence from the EU.
One of my good friends is from Scotland. All ancestry there, born, raised, and lived there to age 40ish. Then ex-pat around the world and now settled in the US. Scots to the core. At the last referendum he described his feelings as “My heart wants independence. My head says ‘No’.” He voted no.
Good bet that’s a stand-in for a substantial fraction of everyone out there in that condition, Scottish or otherwise.
Different thought. Northern Ireland is a special case. Some folks there want to belong to the UK. Other folks there want to belong to the Republic of Ireland (Eire). I’ve never heard of anyone wanting the third possibility: being their own separate country. Are there such folks beyond a random crank or two?
How many ethnic / political groups are like that: feeling trapped on the wrong side of a border, and not really wanting independence, just a change of flag from the country they’re in to a country next door?
Then you’ve got the Kurds. Pretend for a moment Syria that hadn’t just had their beastly war and hadn’t just become a (probably) failed state. So an intact stable Syria. The Kurds are a distinct blob of people whose enclave straddles at least two countries (Turkïye and Syria) and maybe more.
I feel like the reason for independence is critical. Lots of the places mentioned have inchoate independence movements that are primarily centered around notions of national pride or the like. Few are actually serious about being independent because the larger country they’re part of isn’t doing its job. It’s kind of like the difference between a teenager who wants to move out because they don’t like their parents setting their bedtime or restricting their internet use, versus the ones getting legally emancipated because their parents are assholes who don’t provide effectively for them.
There are probably a lot of indigenous populations living amongst foreign-descended majorities for whom this would apply. Many Native American tribes in the US and Canada, and the Maori in New Zealand, come to mind. Though this is complicated by the fact that, in many cases, they already have some (though not all) of the trappings of independence.
Beyond Puerto Rico, any number of Caribbean island territories/commonwealths would also fit the OP. I don’t know of any serious independence movements in Montserrat, or the Turks and Caicos, or the British or American Virgin Islands…
The second referendum was decided by well under 1% of the vote. Although a lot of the no votes were illegally thrown out (in one precinct 100 out of 200 votes were rejected by the counters, who were all in the pay of the province). And the Parti Quebec is poised to win the next election and has promised yet another referendum. So separation is still a possibility and it is misleading to suggest the “people” don’t want it. It seems about half do.
I thought there was a movement to create a separate country of Kurdistan, out of the Kurdish regions of Syria and Turkïye.
That surprises me but your understanding of the current political climate in Quebec is undoubtedly far better than mine. I’d still be surprised if there really was a third referendum, or if it had any chance of winning, but we’ll see. I got the hell out of Quebec 50 years ago, and while I love many aspects of the French culture and miss Montreal, as the old song goes, je ne regrette rien.
There is no Javanese independence movement to speak of (and it is unclear why there would be, given that so many aspects of Javanese identity are virtually inseparable from the broader cultural landscape of Indonesia; for the Javanese to seek independence would be like my heart saying it wanted to secede from the rest of my body).
Indonesia has any number of past and present independence movements, of course. Notably Timor Leste, which is now an independent state; and Aceh, which is not.
The PQ seems nearly certain to win the next election and they are promising another referendum. Whether that promise will gain them or lose them votes is another question. An awful lot of immigrants, forced to go to French schools, have been subject to a lot of pro-independence sentiment.
Doesn’t Iraq have a significant Kurdish region, too?
Perhaps; I have no idea.
Bit of a hijack, I guess, but since you asked.
Substantially nobody in NI advocates for independence now. NI is extremely economically dependent on the UK and would promptly collapse if that support were withdrawn. But in the 1970s and 1980s, following the abolition of Stormont and the imposition of direct rule, some loyalists argued that the best/only way to ensure Protestant supremacy would be in an independent 6 counties, somewhat analogous to the unilateral declaration of independence in Southern Rhodesia. It seems like a contradiction that their British identity would be best served and preserved by leaving the UK, but an independent NI could remain “loyal” as part of some loose federation or just by retaining the symbols of Britishness and the monarchy.