Also, remembered by people where? The number of people from the distant past who are currently remembered world-wide by the man on the street is probably limited to a handful of religious figures.
As a westerner I can name a good number of Roman emperors, politicians, writers. But could the average chinese? Maybe Julius Caesar would ring a bell. And vice-versa, an educated chinese would likely have more general knowledge of their various emperors, dynasties etc. The only chinese emperor that immediately pops into my head in Qin. Being the first.
I always think Edward de Bono will be a big name in the future. He is the first professor of thinking. He’s only mildly known now. I bet most people have never heard of him. But his work in thinking as a subject is the kind of thing that makes a big impact on those that get exposed to it. It could die with him or take off and he would be remembered well after his death as the pioneer of lateral thinking. People could discuss the Socratic method of thinking and the de Bono method of thinking.
If I remember my basic history classes its people who made a huge impact on the world. I remember james watt and his steam engine being significant in the industrial revolution or gutenburg and his printing press playing its role in the renaissance.
if anyone is well read you’ll probably know that these guys were not the only contributors to their fields. indeed the printing press existed before, watt improved on the newcomen engine, but they role they played changed the world.
saying that lots of people don’t remember these. But they are in school history books. Not just hidden away for history majors.
so whats changed massively? Obviously technology. Someone will be famous for changes in that in the future. I bet it could be the dude who developed the transistor. Made an enormous impact. I can’t even remember his name myself. But I can imagine history books saying his name and people being alot more familiar with it in the future.
Or it could just be someone like Alan Turing who isn’t alive today so may not count in this particular conversation. But I can see a name standing out.
Same goes for the internet. If you look at the development of it there are a few contributors and as the decades go by one name will probably stand out and people will remember him. Maybe the berners lee fellow as already mentioned.
I would definitely think that yuri gagarin and the first woman/man on mars would be remembered before Neil Armstrong in 1000 year. But even their significance could change if there is a colony elsewhere at that stage because people would probably know the leader of that voyage more than the first guy in space. Whoever does that will be the columbus on the mayflower guy and it will be significant in the history of mankind.
Medicine has changed massively in the last two centuries and I could imagine them throwing a few names out for students to learn. Who ever that would be I don’t know. The first brain transplant when they get it? The surgeon of the first heart transplant? or just an organ in general. Again I do not know the names but give it 200 years students will be learning the names of someone who did somehting significant
I was going with things named after people - since that seems the best way to keep things in common usage. So at first I thought James Van Allen (of rad belt fame) - but I see he’s been dead since 2006. Then I thought Hubble - but he’s been dead even longer. So then I tried people named after things, and I came up with Chevy Chase - who I guess will be remembered as long as people live in Maryland. Beyond that, I don’t really have much.
I thing a lot would depend on whether English is still a living language in a 1000 years. It is an interesting thought if people will still be watching Star Wars or Lord of the Rings in a 1000 years. If we are cribbing the Illiad and Beowulf and Shakespeare for our popular culture, why won’t they be cribbing our popular culture in 1000 years. They might still remember George Lucas or Peter Jackson in 1000 years.
It is important to remember there was no mass market entertainment 1000 years ago. It is also important to remember that even actors can leave a permanent legacy of their work. I don’t know that will happen, but to be on the safe side we should destroy all copies of Porkies and Weekend at Bernies right away.
I think it’s absolutely impossible to imagine who will still be known in 1000 years. Most people who are still remembered from 1000+ years ago triggered some event or history-changing movement that has significance worldwide, not just in one nation or window of time. And those events or history-changing movements probably didn’t seem so important when they were happening. Hell many countries that existed 1000+ years ago don’t even exist in the same manner today. People who were making news in Yabghu Khaganate of the Oğuz confederacy may have seemed like the most powerful people in history to Turks, but their influence didn’t survive the arc of history because it didn’t extend beyond their own portion of the world.
It often takes 100+ years to recognize the significance of a person or event. Maybe GWB’s wars in the Middle East will lead to something significant or infamous, but we are still unable to see it. Maybe something Stephen Hawking has written or taught ends up being the cornerstone of something we can’t even comprehend now. Maybe Sherwood Schwartz becomes a demigod because his sitcom theme songs play some critical role in world religion.
But we’re still looking at things through a very small window and have no idea how people’s actions today will affect the big picture.
The idea that Barack Obama will be remembered in 1000 years seems laughable, however. It’s likely the US won’t even exist in 1000 years. “First black president” won’t matter if race issues become irrelevant in 1000 years, or if the United States goes away, or the presidency is no more, etc.
I’m not even convinced Hitler will be remembered 1000 years from now. Most people have no idea about the major players of WWI, and that happened less than 100 years ago. The further we get from the events of WWI, the more people will likely forget. The only thing Hitler has “going” for him in the big picture of history is that he heavily targeted members of a major world religion that dates back 5000+ years. His story has politics, war, religion and genocide intersecting which may keep him in the history books for centuries to come. Maybe.
In Ireland going back to the first millennium, the main people recalled today are the saints. St. Patrick, Colmcille, Bridgetand a few others. Their stories are an amalgam of fact and legend. Getting into the early part of the second millennium the first that springs to mind is Brian Boru. Strongbow would be another fully second millennium character well recalled now. I don’t know how well any of these other than St. Patrick would be widely known outside this island.
It’s really odd that people think in 1000 years, people will give a shit who the first black president of the U.S. was. Do any of you give a shit who the first Arab emperor of Rome was? Remembered by historians, yes, but not by the layperson.
My wife and I went out for a fancy dinner tonight, and I remembered this thread while discussing whether to get her some Dom Perignon. Anyone invented any really revolutionary alcoholic beverages recently?
What makes the period since 1952 one of considerable historical interest? I can’t think of anything bigger than the historical blip that was forty years of communist Europe, and compared to ancient political rivalries, that barely registers. The Parthians and the Romans were enemies for a thousand years, and how many Parthians can you name? How many Byzantines?
laughable? the united states is no doubt the biggest player in 20th and early 21st century life. the country that developed nuclear power, sent a man to the moon, and carving 4 giant faces into a stony outcropping in South Dakota will definitely be remembered 1000 years from now. if nothing else, out of the sheer size of the united states - the meaty part of North America - will have us remembered as much as any other historical empire.
barrack hussein obama as a black man with a non-western name, who signed enormous pieces of groundbreaking legislation: bailout, health care, budget crisis, (more to come), certainly has a shot at being remembered after the biggies of Washington, Lincoln, and FDR.
or maybe not. at least the argument is there and the thought isn’t outright laughable to me. i could see happening, but i can understand if not.
what really stands out to me is you saying Hitler won’t be remembered. jeeze, really? WW2 was monstrous compared to WWI. in WWI it was still essentially western europe duking it out over petty imperialistic squabbles. WWII was about global domination. It pulled in Asia in earnest, and the United States arrived in time to do some serious dancing this time around. oh, don’t forget the freakin Holocaust. between the extermination of jews, the repercussions that China and Japan saw*, the first earnest use of both aircraft and armored vehicles in combat, history’s greatest amphibious assault, and the atomic bomb, i dare say that WWII will be history’s most memorable war - ever. and hitler is caught right smack in the middle of it all.
*Japan’s emperor was un-deified, as well as years of radiation poisoning. China’s nationalists were forced to co-op with communists to repel the Japanese, giving rise to the commie’s eventual takeover and the current split between China and Taiwan.
So, who was the world’s most powerful empire 1000 years ago? Who was their leader at that time? With details of governmental acts analogous to health care reform, not military acts. The idea that Obama will be remembered in 1000 years for the bailout, or for health care reform (if it even happens) is laughable - there’s no way it will be of interest to anyone but supremely specialised historians. I’d be surprised if any presidents other than Washington and Lincoln are remembered, and even then it depends on whether the US is culturally important in 1000 years, in the way the Roman Empire is today.
As for Hitler, I imagine his name will have widespread recognition as a historical monster, such as Attila The Hun is now, but most people will not know what he actually did.
The Soviets sent the first person into space, the Chi’zilgerian’s sent the first person to another planet. As for a few statues? they are nothing compared to the rest of the world or what will be created in the future. America will be remembered, but only as much as most other historical empires.
I totally agree with you. He will definately not be eclipsed by the first real black president, and not once in history has there ever been comparable economic trouble and there definately won’t be in the future. He will be remembered as a health pioneer, for being behind many other developed countries.
Chinese people see Hitler as just another leader in just another European war. World War One used warplanes and armoured vehicles, WWII was just a ramping up, and WWIII will easily eclipse it.
How many Japanese today remember that the Emperor claimed divine status? You can’t remember a change if you don’t know it was different before. “Provinces” of China have been independant before, and very few Chinese are consious of that.
does the recognition of Americans prohibit the recognition of other nations?
i’m glad you weren’t around on the planning committee for the sphinx, the statue of liberty, or even Michaelangelo’s David.
if you agree, why are you being so antagonizing?
you think a “real” black president will eclipse Obama? again, i’m puzzled by the all-or-none attitude you’re taking here. social change is historic. alexander ii freeing the serfs, king john signing the magna carta, marie antoinette saying “let them eat cake.” of course obama’s actions are relatively trivial on a grand scheme, but the legislation he’s pushing through is historic - at least for future American history buffs.
um, my entire family is chinese and they are WELL aware who hitler was. the fact that you say WWII was “just another European war” actually makes me doubt myself. merely 66 years after the fact and this is what people take away from WWII? Millions of chinese and japanese died in that war on top of thousands of africans, middle easterners, and indians. it’d be fair to say that Wilhelm II or Clemenceau were “just another leader in just another European war” but Hitler really transcends that. Stalin almost just as much.
again, i’m puzzled at how you’re able to say these sweeping generalizations. the divine status of the japanese emperor is common knowledge even to westerners. why would it be a faint and distant memory for the japanese?
your assertion of provinces of china have been independent before is not just ignorant but borderline offensive to me, speaking as a chinese person. the cultural revolution is one of the largest social upheavals china’s ever seen - and it’s a country that’s seen more than its fair share of social upheaval. if you think that the communist/nationalist conflict and the rise of communism in china crystallized in the “independence” of taiwan and the stark contrast between the two nations is just a blip on the radar, you are extremely mistaken.
the “provinces of china have been independent before and very few chinese are conscious of that” is beyond laughable. romance of the 3 kingdoms, which deals with the exact independence of provinces isn’t just common knowledge, it’s the heart and soul of all cultural medium in china. it’s a period so romanticized and so overused in all historic retellings, it really has no other rivals in terms of era. there are entire college departments dedicated to that era. not a history department - a romance of the 3 kingdoms department.
Not by the typical layperson and didn’t quite make it to 1011, but Gerbert (Pope Sylvester II, 999-1003) was notable for me (and the only person from that era that I can think of) because he studied Arab mathematics and reintroduced the study of mathematics to the west. Honestly, I don’t think there is a person alive today who will be remembered 1000 years from now. There have been giants in the last couple hundred years (Darwin, Einstein) but I don’t think anyone alive today qualifies.
