There is no emergency here. This is hypothetical, inspired by a situation described on another thread.
Assume that you discover an unconscious person. He is breathing and has a pulse, so CPR is not needed. You don’t know what caused his situation: a fall, drugs, heart attack, whatever. You call 911. While you’re waiting for the medics, is it better for that person to be face up or face down with head turned to the side? Or is some other position best? It seems like face up might make it more likely that he could aspirate vomit, but face down puts pressure on his chest and might make breathing harder. You are strong enough to move him any way that’s appropriate. What do you do?
If the person is in no distress and breathing okay you don’t move them at all. If there are any spinal injuries you might make it worse by moving them. If you aren’t sure about their breathing just open their mouth to clear the passageway. Don’t roll them unless it is obvious that they need to be moved or suffocate.
Yet #10 is “if the person is unconscious, put them in the recovery position.” I think being unconscious trumps the not moving them thing, per your bolded item which states “or unless you cannot provide assistance without moving the person.” To break it down a bit further (I’m doing this mostly for my own benefit, to see if I’m thinking this through clearly): Patient is unconscious. You are allowed to move a patient to provide assistance. Assistance for an unconscious person is the recovery position. Therefore, since you can’t put them in the recovery position without moving them, it falls under the “or” part of #3 and is permissable.
Well, if you don’t know what is wrong and they don’t seem to be in danger of throwing up I seem to recall you should leave them as they are in case of a spinal injury. If it seems likely that they would be ill, it’s better to move them in the recovery position because the chance of choking to death on vomit trumps damage to the spine.
It’s really subjective sometimes, and all you can do is do what you think is best (according to training) and hope you didn’t make a wrong choice before the professionals get there.
I would pretty much say you’re right though, bobkitty, because you’ve already checked for everything else first and that checking might indicate that you shouldn’t move them (like they are laying in such a way as is not anatomically possible unless you are really really flexible).
If you know the person is just passed out or has a history of seizures or is unconscious due to a KNOWN reason. Fine move them onto their side. IF you come across an unconscious person that is showing NO signs of respiratory distress…YOU BETTER NOT move them unless they’re apt to get run over in the street or something immediately endangering their life.
You may find yourself in jail or a lawsuit at the very least for rendering medical attention without knowing WTF you are doing. If you cause the death or disability of another because you caused a spinal injury by rolling them around while they were suffering from: for example…a mugging, they’d been hit hard with a bat or whatever and was knocked unconscious due to a concussion or perhaps had some cracked vertebrate etc…because you caused their paralysis, brain damage or death by MOVING them, you are responsible.
Ever been to the scene of an accident…they will not move accident victims (especially unconscious victims) until they are secured and have a neck brace in place. Unless of course the cars burning or they are in distress that is life threatening. Even then they are especially careful to NOT cause further possible spinal injuries.
Sorry bobkitty but the more important steps are the ones higher up on the list. I’ll give ya an out though… if you KNOW for a fact…etc.
Then again, you probably wouldn’t know if they perhaps had an OLD injury that might have been compromised by their fall.
Nope don’t move’em.
The problem is, you really can’t be sure the person is getting adequate air if they’re on their back. Try it- lie down on your back and relax all your facial muscles. You can’t exactly duplicate the completely-relaxed positioning of someone who is unconscious, but you can tell that your tongue is going to be in the way. That’s why one of the first steps of CPR is to tilt the head, to open up the airway.
t-keela him(?)self said that if there’s concern about the airway, open the mouth. But if you just open the mouth, you’re not going to be affecting the tongue unless you reach into the person’s mouth with your thumb and hold it in place (something, by the way, which is expressly verboten). You have to tilt the head to be absolutely sure there’s no blockage. And if, as you’re so concerned about, there’s a spinal/neck injury, then you’re going to be exacerbating it anyway once you do this. Why not simply cover for a potential airway blockage and possible vomiting/inhalation of liquids by putting them in the RP?
Are all the SD doctors and nurses out golfing or something? I know the ARC instructor whose class I completed about a month ago was quite specific on this topic, but let’s see what the pros say.
Wrong. Good Samaritan laws, applicable in most states, cover First Responders under just such circumstances. As long as you are practicing up to the level at which you are trained, you’re not liable for anything that happens to the patient. For instance, I’m trained in basic and intermediate first aid, as well as the snazzy new disaster-related first aid. I’m not going to perform a tracheotomy on someone, but I’ll damn sure jump in and do what I can within the scope of my training. Now, if you’re Joe Blow and don’t have a lick of common sense when it comes to first aid, then no, I don’t recommend you jumping into the middle of an accident scene (unless it’s to offer to call for help, or to follow very specific directions from someone knowledgable), but if you’re trained then you’re obligated to help someone to the full extent of your abilities, regardless of fear of repercussions.
It doesn’t matter where on the list it is, for exactly the reason I stated in my other post- #3 clearly says you’re to provide assistance. Assistance for an unconscious person is the recovery position.
Perhaps by “move” they’re talking about transporting the person. So if they passed out in in a burning building, it’d be okay to carry them outside to get them out of danger, but if they pass out on the living room floor, don’t try to move them to the couch or something.
