The problem for the US is that if he was returned to the UK he could not be detained; they would prefer to send him for re-education in a Saudi prison!
I think it is quite clear. Every Brit freed from Gitmo has received a good and understanding reception from the press and intelligentsia in the UK. Secret services on both sides do not like being seen as fools.
Still not an excuse for several reasons.
This is a problem created solely by America and it is America’s responsibility to find a solution. There was never any excuse to create this monster but it is made worse by the fact that many, probably most, of the prisoners were never terrorists or anything of the sort, some were even minors or even children.
It is an infamy and a shame. And the responsibility is widespread. We can point at Bush but the fact is that the American people as a whole supported the policy and still do. If they didn’t it would not have happened or would have stopped. If there was enough internal pressure it would not be happening.
Then the rest of the govrnments of developed countries. None of then have taken a firm stand against this, most of them, embarrassed, just look the other way while some have actively helped. This is not only America but the entire western world.
The government of Spain, like other European nations, has cooperated with stopovers for rendition flights and others even had secret prisons. It all makes a mockery of Human Rights.
If there was enough international pressure America would take more interest in this but there isn’t because those governments value their relations with America higher than Human rights, even if it means doing and condoning evil.
And even if some prisoners cannot be sent back to their home countries there would be other countries willing to take them. Spain has taken three of which two are mental wrecks which will probably never have a normal life.
Cite that countries are willing to take the 100-something prisoners that remain, please.
I understand that countries have taken other prisoners, but it seems that nobody wants responsibility for the ones that are remaining, as far as I can tell.
You must know something that Mr Aamer’s attorney doesn’t.
So what you and the US government want me to believe is that no country will take these people?
The US government has had no problem getting other countries to go to war with them, to collaborate in secret rendition flights, to set up secret torture prisons and yet the same US government, poor thing, just cannot get any country in the world to help out in a humanitarian mission?
Isn’t it more likely and more credible that the US government is just using this as an excuse for doing what it really wants to do?
Look, you give me enough money and I will find a country willing to take them.
Asserting America just can’t find anyone willing to help is ludicrous.
In other words, give me a cite that America has done serious, and I mean serious, efforts to free these prisoners to other countries.
We all know congress would never allow it. And it would further expose the attrocities done in the name of “freedom”.
The problem is equally on us not sending them. There’s 50ish Yemens cleared for release, half of them being “low risk”, but we won’t send them to Yemen. There are legitimate concerns to sending them there (AQAP, adequate security, ect), but politics has dragged it out needlessly. Yemen will take them - we just need to pony up money and resources.
You know, I have to agree that it really isn’t any more complicated than that. It’s easy to find a hundred reasons why it can’t be done, but it’s our creation, and we own the solution to getting it done. We’re the world’s only freakin’ superpower, for Chrissake.
One thing, from my perspective, is I don’t give a rat’s ass if any of these guys go all jihadi after we release them. A hundred more is like pissing in the ocean. There is no shortage of people who detest the US, and each of these guys will be on everyone’s watch list like stink on shit.
There are probably a few (KSM comes to mind) that we can legitimately try in court, and those we can’t, we’ll just have to let them go. Keeping that institution alive is more of a danger to the US than closing it will be.
I hear Cuba is a rather grim place without the USSR. They could just leave the back door open some night.
Ok, no cite for your claim. Thanks!
I did not make a claim. You did. It is up to you to support it, not me. You are the one who needs to prove that the US government has made serious efforts to release these prisoners but has been unable to do so. Not me. I do not need to prove a negative. You need to prove your positive assertion.
No, I didn’t. Perhaps you read something someone else wrote and attributed it to me. All I did was ask you for a cite.
You are the one saying “nobody wants responsibility”. I cannot prove that they do if the USA has not done some serious attempts. Why would countries volunteer without being asked? You say “nobody wants responsibility”. OK, show us all the countries which have refused.
And while you are at it i would like to see some cites that Bush did not torture prisoners in Guantanamo with his own hands. Because it seems to me like he did. Can you find a cite saying he didn’t? If not then it proves my point.
I readily admit I don’t know if there are countries lining up to take more released detainees. It doesn’t seem like it to me, but I am not claiming that as a fact. Then you said this:
I asked for a cite. You couldn’t provide one, so I’m now clear that your opinion is just as unfounded as mine. I just wanted to see if you had some facts that you were drawing on when you made that statement, and it seems like that matter has been settled.
ETA: Plus, it seems like you were misrepresenting my statement to ask me to prove a negative, in that no countries want detainees. There’s no way I would make such a claim; and there’s no way that anyone could prove it.
Wrong, there is an easy way to prove it.
USA to country A: Will you please take some prisoners?
Country A: NO
USA: Pretty Please?
Country A: NO
USA: How about if I throw in some money?
Country A: how much?
USA: How much would you want?
Country A: A lot
USA: I can only offer a little.
Country A: piss off
USA: OK, let me try another country and if I can’t get a better deal I’ll get back to you but be ready for some serious arm twisting.
USA to country B: Will you please take some prisoners?
Once the USA has asked all the countries in the world, and has made some serious offers and some arm twisting and has been unable to get them to take them THEN that is proof that all other countries will not take them. Very easy to prove a positive.
What you can’t do is say “why would we ask? they’ll refuse anyway”.
Specially since the USA was so convincing in finding “willing” supporters for its wars. the coalition of the “unable to refuse” like Dominican Republic et al.
So who really believes that so many countries were willing to let themselves be pushed into supporting a war they didnt want and yet not one can be found that will take these prisoners. These are just convenient lies for those who need them to cover the truth. They do not convince anyone who is impartial or fair, they are only a fig leaf to cover the shame that this is. like the many lies told to cover for the war. lies and more lies to justify the unjustifiable.
If America was told tomorrow “you have to free these people NOW, if you can’t find a country that will take them the in America”, does anybody really believe a country would not be found to take them? Come on!
I can’t believe Americans believe this bullshit.
If you misrepresent what I’ve said, it’s very easy to get outraged at bullshit.
You said it is impossible to prove and I showed you how easy it is to prove.
The truth is it doesn’t look good when the USA releases three guys who have been tortured and two are total mental wrecks who will never be normal again and one of them tries to commit suicide.
The USA does not even have to fully liberate them. It could take them to some American island and try to give them a normal life there. But no, the only option is to keep them in prison and mistreated.
The problem is not other countries, the problem is the American Congress and the American people who have supported the torture and imprisonment and who continue to support them and don’t give a shit about Human Rights. the rest is just excuses to cover up what we all know.
Hold on a sec – what you’re saying is that I would have to show that 180-plus countries have no interest in taking former detainees – which I’ve already said I’m not suggesting is a fact. I asked you to show which countries ARE interested in taking detainees, and you went off on some tangent misrepresenting what I’ve said. Seems to me that even the most basic grasp of logic would find that you would have the much easier task.
I agree 110 percent.
Do you mean some far-flung atoll in the Pacific? I’m not sure that stranded on St. Helena is any more justifiable than imprisoned in Guantanamo.
I agree with your views about the Congress, but once you are finished with the venom, you haven’t left me with any better idea of what to do with the prisoners that is ethical, legal, and feasible.