What qualities/abilities must a racing car driver have to be fast?

Factual Questions
1

I’m not sure that this shouldn’t be in IMHO, but for the second part of my question, which is:

Out of all the different types of racing car available [NASCAR/F1/FORMULA3000/IRL{INDY}], which is the hardest to drive?

I realise that this is a difficult question to answer, because it involves cars that people probably haven’t really come into contact with. Just give it your best swing.

What types of features (for e.g. quick reactions/good set-up mind etc.) are necessary to drive a racing car very fast? Indeed, does the car itself determine the characteristics of the driver?

For example, relatively recently Jeff Gordon (4 times NASCAR Winston Cup winner) swapped places (and cars) with Formula 1 hotshot Juan Pablo Montoya. Basically, Juan got into Jeff’s stock car, and Jeff got his body into Montoya’s Williams FW25. What happened next becomes the stuff of legend (not really, but it kept you reading the last sentence no?). Basically, while Montoya was about a second off Gordon’s pace in the stock car, Gordon (whom everyone had predicted would be a couple of seconds off Montoya’s pace in his F1 car) was a mere second off after only a handful of laps.

Of course everyone at the Williams camp was absolutely trapsmacked that Gordon could do this in such short a time, and reports soon flooded Frank’s (Williams) desk that Gordon really was a remarkable driver in the flesh (no suprise to his fans I guess).

But the technical line that divides a Williams F1 car from Gordon’s stock car is pretty darn big. Aerodynamics, traction control, launch control, brakage etc. are all quite different in both cars. I’ve heard that in order to be an F1 driver you have to be more smooth in steerage (personally I don’t see how this is the case) and obviously can be much later on the brakes (so your reactions must be faster) than in NASCAR. So why is someone like J.G. so easily taken to driving? What exactly does he have that I don’t have? Is it in his Axions (biologically that is)? Are his action potentials travelling faster than mine?

What technical characteristics in a car (as in what type of car being driven) will determine what qualities a driver must have in order to be fast?

–Forgive me for any spelling mistakes. I can hardly see my screen coz the damn graphic is blocky ever since this whore changed my dad’s computer. And no, it’s not what you think.

2

OK this should have gone into GQ can one of the Mods please move this thread into that destination?

3

Basically, the answer is this: A good driver is a good driver. In the examples you gave, all are equally difficult to drive, with the possible exception of the oval racers (NASCAR, IRL) because they don’t have to deal with quite as many changing conditions. However, the good drivers in those oval series are just as good, because very little about the actual theory and usage of the theory of driving is different. Also, F3000 is a feeder series for F1, so the driver’s aren’t as good there because they aren’t the cream of the crop.

Ok, so let’s take a step back, and look at the things one has to do to drive a race car well.

  • Understand the line and how to find it.
  • Understand the qualities that make a car handle, such as how driveline type equates to different handling characteristics, and what types of downforce do
  • Understand how inputs to the car affect the what the car does
  • Be able to exercise extremely fine motor control over inputs
  • Have large amounts of endurance
  • Be able to quickly understand changes in car handlin and road conditions, and adapt to them
  • Be able to understand what you just did, and how you want to adjust your inputs in the future to do different things

There are, of course, other things, but these are probably the main ones. And every single one of those elements is going to be present in a race car driver of any series. A really good driver won’t take long to adjust to different levels of downforce, for example, because he understands what is happening, and can adapt to it.

I’m not sure why the had honchos were surprised at the people’s performance. I’m sure if you stuck two novice drivers in opposite cars, you’d have a different situation, but these guys are the tops of their field.

4

I’d contend the hardest type of race driving would be rally. It’s not just hard in a technical sense, but hard on the car and the person.

Having done only spirted driving on the streets, and my fair share of go-cart racing against friends. I’d say the qualities required for an excellent racer go beyond learnable attributes.

Necros has an excellent list. To that I’d add:

  • Very high reaction speed
  • Does not panic under high stress situations
  • Situational awareness

When I have raced in a go-cart (the only legal racing I’ve ever done) lots of thought for me goes into steering inputs and road conditions. Control is very important in situations where there isn’t alot of it. Drifting around a corner is all good and fun but not if you oversteer into the wall or spin out.

5

Moderator’s Note: Downshifting from GD to GQ.

6

In one of my racing instruction books( I forget which), the author made a statement that I always remembered, because at the time it went against a notion of mine.
He said (paraphrasing here), “I would rather have a student display quick mental reflexes, but normal physical reflexes”

His explanation was that high performance cars do no respond well to large, sudden inputs into steering, braking, or acceleration. (Which is to say, it’s a sure way to put the car into a wall or off the course). Smooth inputs are key.

Gordon’s success in the F1 car is not surprising to me, he grew up racing open wheel cars, and dominates (along with Robby Gordon and Tony Stewart) the road courses in Nascar. Those 3 drivers are the 3 drivers on quality teams that have extensive open wheel racing experience.

7

As alluded to above, one thing that is incredibly important is for a driver to have a good “feel” for what the car is doing and be able to communicate to the crew on what changes need to be made during a pit stop. I don’t know how important this is in all types of racing (the “pointy” cars) but I know it’s paramount in NASCAR.

8

Absolutely crucial in the pointy cars, too, Bruce_Daddy.

I didn’t know that Gordon has open wheel experience. I suspect, though, that it would be irrelevant for a premier driver. Obviously Montoya didn’t have any problem with the NAS-car.

And badmana, as a soon-to-be rally driver (building the car right now), I completely agree with you that rally is the hardest to drive, and therefore produces the most skilled drivers. :smiley:

Well, it’s either most skilled or most insane. :wink:

9

If I may offer a difference of opinion regarding Rally verses Oval.

Those rally cars don`t need to be as nearly perfectly tuned as the Nascar type cars. Set em up and let it rip.

However, the Nascar setup requires pinpoint adjustments that the driver must be able to figure out and relay back to the pit crew before and during the race to get the car to stay on the track at the highest speed. Very fine adjustments can greatly alter the performance of the car. Also the higher speeds must be a little more nerve racking.

I understand that the Rally course drivers must be in more control of the car due to the wild forces exerted during the race. I also think there is more room for error in Rally.

There are different levels of skill involved and I don`t think that they can be compared on the same level.

10

People who regularly write about racing seem to settle on a few characteristics which separate the great racers from the good ones, and it seems to me that some of the most popular characteristics that they write about are a couple of the ones that badmana mentioned above: stress resistance and situational awareness. I can give some not-so-well cited examples of both.

Regarding stress resistance, my first example comes solely from recollection. Back in the 1970s, ABC put heart monitors on some of the drivers as they ran their qualifying laps at Indy. One guy kissed the wall coming out of a turn at 180 mph. His heart rate barely fluctuated.

NASCAR drivers regularly drive straight through smoke-obscured accidents at nearly full speed, because hitting the brakes overtop of spilled oil and fuel is a near-certain way to lose control of the car. That takes a lot of balls, and it doesn’t always work.

Situational awareness and willingness to push the envelope is embodied in the career of The Maestro, Juan Manuel Fangio, undoubtedly one of the superlative drivers of the history of the entire sport. In one of the most famous races of all time, Fangio won at the 1957 Nurburgring by creating a new line in the last laps of the race which shaved seconds off of the lead per lap. Somehow the guy realized that he could retain control of his car while straightlining a turn while passing the lead car.

Fangio’s first GP win at Monaco in 1950 is a classic example of situational awareness. A wave broke over the wall and soaked the track just past a blind turn, causing a nine-car pileup as car after car came around the turn and lost control. Fangio, upon approaching the turn, inexplicably slowed down and picked his way through the carnage. After the race, he admitted to doing something no driver is supposed to do: he was watching the spectators as he drove, and noticed that suddenly nobody was watching him.

11

whuckfistle, I was joking in my comment about rally drivers, but I disagree that ou can just set rally cars up and “let it rip.” There are significant bits of setup that need to be done to a rally car, and changes that get made that setup based on driver input. Since rally is runon al types of surfaces, and the type of surfaces changes even during the course of a stage, drivers need to be aware of exactly how their car is reacting to the conditions, and what precise adjustments (camber angle, toe, shock rebound, spring rates, etc.) need to be made to acomodate. In addition, tire choice is an incredibly important aspect that the driver often personally determines.

Besides that, rally drivers need to know how to fix their own cars, since they don’t just get to pit in on the next lap. Also, I’ve seen rally drivers whose cars are significantly fire-involved continue on to finish the stage. Not sure how often IRL dudes do that.

And higher speeds for Nascar? Somewhat, but rally cars can hit 150 mph or more on some flat straights.

On the other hand, Nascar guys race within inches of each other at those speeds. So, the course is significantly easier, but the stress level is equally high.

12

I believe it was prior to the United States Grand Prix last year (no luck on finding a cite, sorry) that one of the F1 teams let a woman with IRL experience take their car around the track for a few laps. She commented on the F1 car being much, much more responsive to any inputs and generally more challenging to drive. If I had found the cite, I think that would be rater compelling evidence that F1 requires the highest level of driver skill, if there was any debate about that.

Although, I think rally drivers have the best skills at coping with unexpected situations. Another un-cited anecdote: While watching a WRC event on TV, one of the driver’s (I believe he was German, don’t remember any more specifically) steering wheel started to loosen up. So, to deal with this, the co-driver reaches behind the seat, grabs a wrench and starts tightening the nuts holding it on, without the driver stopping, or even slowing very much.

13

Ender_Will , that was Petter Solberg, a Norwegian, who drives for Subaru. His codriver tightening the steering wheel was Phil Mills, a Welshman.

Go Petter! :slight_smile:

14

Ender_Will, I saw that rally car incident as well. It was Petter Solberg and Phil Mills in Greece.

15

Having driven a few race cars myself, I’d like to expand on the “situational awareness” thing. I think it goes beyond just knowing what is going on. I’d call it something like spatial apperception, but using more than just your vision. The top drivers are able to use all their senses (including smell!) to determine what their car is doing, how the track is changing, etc.

Alain Prost, an F1 world champion, used to have the bottoms cut out of his seats so that he could sit directly on the chassis of the car. He claimed (and I believe him) that it allowed him to feel how the car was handling and how close it was to the edge.

These guys have an almost supernatural ability to detect the most minute changes and take action before they get past the point of control.

Necros it was Sarah Fisher who drove a McLaren F1 car last year at Indy. She actually said that the F1 car was much easier to drive than she expected because of all the computer control, and once she got used the differences, wasn’t much more or less difficult than her IRL car, just different (e.g the F1 car generates much greated front to back G force, but the IRL car generates more lateral G force). Jeff Gordon said basically the same thing: the F1 car has traction control to prevent wheelspin, the transmission can shift automatically, etc which prevented him from getting in over his head and let him get up to speed very quickly.

16

It’s not a supernatural ability or special genes that make people like Gordon great drivers. They spend their entire lives in race cars, training really hard. A lot of them start driving when they’re toddlers. They’re elite athletes, after all. Larry Bird would shoot thousands of baskets every day. Jeff Gordon would drive, work on an engine, etc.

As far as what cars are the hardest to drive, I nominate mud boggers.

17

I disagree that there is more room for error. I have watched WRC and I am sure both of you have to. In some of the races I see they make “controlled” slides around corners sometimes side by side, and if one of them oversteers, accelerates too soon, breaks, or ends the turn sooner than the other it could resuld in death or injury just as in nascar. They can hit trees, fall off cliffs, crash, flip, roll, and a number of other things. This happened locally.

I think they are equally difficult but they have different dangers for both of them.

18

i was reading a short bio on sterling moss and this guy could tell the tire pressure in each tire to within a couple of pounds just driving the car. also in the mille miglia IIRC he was gaining on the leader and realized if he saw him coming up the rear he would speed up so he turned of the lights (it was nightime) and punched it for a about fifty miles as he was just about to pass him he switched on the lights and went on to win the race. this guy also lost all braking in one race and continued to race and won. after the race he stepped out of the car had someone get in and press the brakes as far as they would go and activate the hand brake he then pushed the car easily to show the amount of braking power he had during the race.

19

I think other than the main ingredient for success in any formula of racing which is a very reliable and fast machine, what counts the most is the physical and mental fitness of the driver with an emphasis on the physical abilities to cope with the severe loads of G-forces thrown at them.Drivers in Formula 1 are known to experience several (4-5)G`s on thier necks through several turns, and lose upto 3 kilos of weight per race due to sweating.Also intimate knowledge of cars and thier working and setups also distinguish the men from the boys.

With reference to the Juan Montoya and Jeff Gordon experience I personally feel that the whole thing was a bit sugar coated for positive media exposure. It has to be noted that these gentlemen exchanged and drove cars on an Oval, and if one wanted to know the true difference of timings between JGs laps as compared to JPMs laps we need to put them on any standard F1 circuit which has on an average 12-13 turns of varying speeds and G forces.None of the Formula 1 races are run on an oval circuit and IMHO I feel that you tend to lose less time on an oval as compared to a circuit with various twists and turns.

And finally it must not be forgotten that a good driver is a good driver no matter what. There have been several instances where drivers have crossed over from various formulae and have been sucessful. Recent examples are JPM and Jacque Villenue (Even Cristiano Da Matta is fairly sucessful) from CART to Formula 1, Max Papis (From Formula 1 to CART), Johnny Herbert and Alan Mcnish (From Formula 1 to Le Mans).

20

Um, they(Gordon and Montoya) ran on the road course at Indy…following the exact same track that is used for the US Gran Prix. It uses part of the oval, but it is a fully approved track for F1 use.

Gordon’s times compared favorably to the qualifying times from last year, considering it was his first time in the car.

Gordon did spin the car exiting the pit once.