What really is double jeopardy (lega) really?

[Contrapuntal]

@Bootis

Hopefully this is on topic enough- This reminds me of a question I’ve thought of sometimes. Say a person kills a few people in a killing spree. Is there anything stopping prosecutors from trying him for killing one of the people, but not the others yet, as sort of an insurance policy against screwing up somehow, or running into a brilliant defense strategy? And if the killer is acquitted, they just try him for another one of the murders, this time having seen their defense?

That would have happened with the Beltway Snipers if convictions had not been achieved.

[xcalibre]

@pravnik

Not exactly - he was found guilty of capital murder, but the evidence wasn’t sufficent to uphold that charge based on the murder of Stacie and the attempted rape of Kristie. When that conviction was overturned, he couldn’t be retried under that same theory, but he could be retried for non-capital first degree murder, so that’s what they set out to do. Before that trial could take place he gave them additional evidence that allowed them to retry him for the murder and attempted rape of Stacie, which is not the same capital murder that he’d originally been charged with.

I gotcha, but if you read the wiki quote it states that double jeopardy applies to cases overturned based on evidenciary insufficiency. It’s actually kinda difficult to get really hard facts on the exact time line, but I believe it was overturned on appeal due to insufficient evidence as to the motive nature of the murder.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Contrapuntal

That would have happened with the Beltway Snipers if convictions had not been achieved.

With the Beltway snipers, that was because they killed people in different countries. So, the Fairfax County, VA Attorney General could charge them for the people they killed in Fairfax County, the Montgomery County, MD Attorney General could charge them for the people they killed in Montgomery County, and so on.

[muldoonthief]

@md2000

Since the result of the appeal is essentially “this trial never happened”( is that what overturned verdict means??) then why not. I suspect amended charges are often refiled, butusually the other way? I.e. it’s not first-degree murder according to the appeal court, so we’re going with a 2nd degree murder charge.

To hijack a bit - don’t prosecutors file new charges for old crimes if a victim dies later? Like a person tries to kill their victim, but the victim survives but is in a coma. Person is convicted of attempted murder. 2 years later, the victim dies, having never awakened from the coma - can prosecutors then file murder charges?

[md2000]

@muldoonthief

To hijack a bit - don’t prosecutors file new charges for old crimes if a victim dies later? Like a person tries to kill their victim, but the victim survives but is in a coma. Person is convicted of attempted murder. 2 years later, the victim dies, having never awakened from the coma - can prosecutors then file murder charges?

I thought I read somewhere that there’s a time limit - if the person dies as a direct result of injuries sustained within 1 year, it’s murder. Not sure if this is still the case.

I guess, the short answer is - show me a place where the murder trial is all wrapped up within a year. OJ demanded the fasted trial he could get; it took a year to get to trial and several months after that to wrap up IIRC. If during the trial the victim dies, could they refile with stronger charges? Certainly they can before trial. Once they’ve had a trial once for the action - attempted or real murder - then it’s too late to charge again.

[pravnik]

@muldoonthief

To hijack a bit - don’t prosecutors file new charges for old crimes if a victim dies later? Like a person tries to kill their victim, but the victim survives but is in a coma. Person is convicted of attempted murder. 2 years later, the victim dies, having never awakened from the coma - can prosecutors then file murder charges?

Under the facts you give, no, the attempted murder conviction will prevent subsequent reprosecution for murder. A conviction for a necessarily included lesser offense will bar prosecution for the greater one.

If you change the hypo a bit so that the prior conviction for attempt hadn’t happened, the common law rule is the “year and a day rule” - if you die within a year and a day of your injuries your assailant could be charged with your murder. The common law rule has been supplanted by statute in most jurisdictions. I researched and wrote a little bit about various state statutes in an old thread on murder prosecutions in cases of brain death, but darned if I can find it now.

Slightly off topic, one of UT Tower sniper Charles Whitman’s victims died 35 years later from kidney failure caused by his gunshot wound. The Tarrant County Coroner’s report listed his death as a homicide.