I see no need to be open minded about someone breaking the laws of my country.
When you are the “guest”/“newcomer”, you are obligated to follow the laws of your new home. Period. Laws are not optional. You want lawlessness, go to another less law-abiding nation.
I will add that there is plenty of animal cruelty in American culture as well (I’m referring to factory farming.) Optimistically, I think if the average American understood what goes on in some of these farms, there would be widespread support for tougher regulations. If cockfighting gradually became acceptable once again to Americans, I would be less optimistic that we could solve the factory farming problem.
So you condemn homosexuals in the military or people that smoke marijuana as well? They are against the laws of the US. The stuff that I reference in post #81 are American customs and not universally illegal throughout the US. It all is an American culture that simply isn’t shared by many others in American. It blows apart a myth of the some sort single, monolithic culture. In reality, we have a lot of cultures / cultural practices in the US that we should be tolerant of as long as it is not harming other human beings or taking away their freedoms. I see little harm in the introduction of most of the cultural practices of most immigrants, legal and illegal coming into this country. Citing cultural harm as a reason against immigration, legal or illegal, seems like a reason based on a belief in the inferiority of the immigrant whereas economic and security are reasons without the stigma of discrimination.
This has all gotten way past the point of the OP (maybe a new thread is in order). Anyhow…
To be substantially bothered by modern agricultural practices related to meat production is to me just extremely bizzare. My American culture simply cannot even compute why anyone would be substantially bothered by it. Obviously, your American culture doesn’t hold that view. I see this as fact that their is no one culture in the US. I would rather see personal measures like spending more dollars on “non-factory farmed” meat products and advocation to do the same by others instead of using the government to do dirty work against an industry and its employees, suppliers, and its end product users. It just seems terribly mean spirited and un-ethical to get the government involved in supporting one’s personal discrimination no matter how widely held those discriminating feelings are held. I would add that any traditional or cultural animal use, be it for religous practices, the consumption of food, or even sporting uses should be exempt from animal cruelty laws in a just society. I understand that we aren’t a just society (just look at the recent anti-homosexual legislation in various states); I just want others to realize that when they get the government involved in enforcing their personal opinions on others that don’t hold those opions about matters that don’t harm other human beings that they are contributing to an un-just society as well.
You’re talking about your own personal opinion or maybe the attitude of your ethnic subgroup, not “American culture”. I don’t think attitudes toward animal cruelty are uniform enough to really be a part of American culture, but on the whole, Americans are less tolerant of animal cruelty than other cultures. Hence the almost total ban on animal fights. It goes back to the British origins of America, but even there you have some historical variability, what with their bearbaiting and fox hunts. There has been a marked shift away from that sort of thing in both Britain and America since they became predominantly urbanized.
I would agree that this cultural phenomena about animal rights is a consequence of growing urbanization. Of course, I feel that it is unfortunate consequence because of it is oft times absurd and clearly discrimnatory to other cultures.
Some points need to be made a little more pointedly.
America does have a culture. It’s the one liberals don’t mind sacrificing every time they argue for some poor group from elsewhere wanting to hold on to their wonderful, rich, glorious culture. But I’ll go out on a limb and say that any culture that believes in stoning women for adultery is inferior, as in not as advanced. A culture that wants to pull an eleven-year-old girl out of her bed in the middle of the night and mutilate her genitals? Inferior. A culture that revels in chickens or dogs killing each other for their amusement? Inferior. And while we’re at it, a culture that makes a spectacle of the torturing of a majestic animal by guys in leotards wielding fancy spears? Inferior. As in barbaric. All of them.
For those that want to come here, first, let them do it legally. If not, send them the fuck back and bar them entry for ten years. If they sneak in again, jail for a few years and a twenty year ban. Eventually the message will sink in. Next, let them leave there barbarism behind. If they’re willing to, let’s welcome them. If not, let’s send them the back to where there barbarism is better appreciated.
As far as race versus culture, the divide for most Americans is cultural. Most good old boy types portrayed as racist would rather have Thomas Sowell living next door to them than Kid Rock. Quincy Jones or Neil Tyson rather than a white guy that owns a strip club or or a tattoo parlor. Most would rather have a hard-working family from Nigeria or Mexico or Honduras or Thailand than a handful of lazy white slobs.
As far as immigration, pick a number, 250,000, 1 million, 2 million, 5 million per year. Just make sure it is a number that benefits us. We pick the number, since we’re letting people into our house, so to speak. Period. And after, that lock the fucking gate. This is the part that reveals most liberals on immigration who want to come off as moderate/reasonable to be full of shit. Because they never want to lock the gate. There’s always another worthy group. You know what? That’s the exact reason we need a fence with an unpickable lock with armed soldiers. We can’t let everyone in.
And we should have a guest worker program that is fair, simple, and again, benefits US. Many people from points south would actually prefer to work here and go back to Mexico without fear. A lot of work is seasonal. If we need it, let’s bring people in who want to do it. But let’s also pay them a fair wage. Once we do that, some Americans will choose to do those jobs. The mantra that the illegal immigrants do the jobs that Americans won’t do is bullshit. The truth is that they won’t do them for those low, depressed wages. We have crummy jobs here that Americans line up to do. Take garbage men. If that was paying 4 dollars an hour, do you think every opening would be snatched up before it’s even advertised? No. Now if the cost of lettuce goes up 10 or 20 percent, that’s fine. It’s just going to the price it should be. But in the end, if there is a worker shortage that is not being handled by our immigration policy, let’s invite in as many hard-working people from elsewhere as we need. I understand that Canada has a program that allows people to come in for 8 months or so, then they go back. No hiding in the shadows. No resentment. Quite the opposite. Same thing for construction. If more workers are needed than are available here—again, at a fair wage—then let’s invite in people from Mexico or anywhere else to help. They’ll have my thanks. As long as they do it all legally and go back at the end of their stint. If they want to apple for citizenship after they’re home, excellent. Hopefully a new an efficient immigration policy will make the process smooth.
But the fact is, that for the foreseeable future at least, there will be many, many more people who would like to move here than would benefit us. That’s sad to a large degree, as their plight in life sucks. But I’ve said before in regards to Mexico, that country has got to get it’s shit together. If the Mexican illegals that come here are so hard-working (and they are), wouldn’t they be a blessing to there own country? Of course, except the country succeeds in nothing like it does corruption. But the government doesn’t want to have to take care of millions of minor skilled workers so they encourage them to come sneak into the US. And as an added incentive to the corrupt officials, billions of dollars get sent back from the U.S., while we pick up the tab for their education and health care. In what universe should the inhabitants of a country like America be happy about this. So fuck Mexico—their corrupt officials. And a slightly softer fuck you to anyone who thinks they have a right to sneak into our country just because they want to.
As far as the saccharine nonsense about the words of Emma Lazarus, they were put up at a time when we were actively trying to attract immigrants. Why is this concept so difficult to understand? A country should craft an immigration policy that is in their own best interest—at that point in time. That’s what we did at the turn of the century. Our needs are different now, so the equation changes. And let not those who harken back to this as some immigrant nirvana, forget that these people were coming here legally, we knew where they came from and where they were going and who was sponsoring them. And they were all given physicals, resulting in tens of thousands being sent back!
There. I hope that helps. Now I’ll sit back and wait for the usual suspects to throw out charges of racism. I just ask that when you do, show specifically where what I’ve said should be so construed.
Moderator’s Note: But what about immigrant zombies? Coming here to take our brains away from hard-working American zombies!
(As this thread is approaching its third birthday, I’ve locked it; anyone wishing to discuss racism, the American anti-immigration movement, and undead migrant workers may of course start a new thread, with or without links to this one.)