It’s not from being a different religion. It typically happens during evolution discussions, which go from nonsense like why are there still monkeys if we evolved from monkeys to evolution can’t be true since we don’t understand what caused the Big Bang to “you’ll be sorry when you die” as if this is going to have any effect on those who don’t believe in hell.
It’s no so much that they think those who believe in other religions are going to hell, it is that they don’t really grasp that someone they are talking to is of a different faith. Or none. It’s the “you are an atheist because you hate god” fallacy.
So you’re an atheist, same way you’re an “aunicornist”.
You run into some people who use a term you’ve never encountered before, Fthgnithl, to refer to something they consider real. You are not an aFthgnithlist, you don’t believe OR disbelieve, insofar as you haven’t the foggiest freaking idea WTF they’re talking about. That could be their word for something you also consider real, you just don’t use that word for it. Or that could be their word for some silly-ass construct that you’d toss into the same discard barrel as gods and unicorns.
With me so far? If not, dissent to the above portion and make it clear that that’s where your dissent lies. Otherwise, let’s go complicate up matters just a bit…
Let’s say a bunch of people who use Fthgnithl to refer to something they consider real are asked — by their friends, associates, their children, their love partners, etc — to explain WTF they’re talking about. They explain. People don’t get it, or at least a lot of them don’t. They try again. At some point they start incorporating a lot of metaphors and analogies and simplifications into their attempts to explain. For various reasons, let’s say these confused people who don’t get it have a lot of motivation to wrap their heads around it. Before long, a lot of people who use “Fthgnithl” in the course of their speech are people who did not ever actually understand beyond an oversimplified manner. In particular, a lot of them are now treating the analogies and metaphors as the actual literal definition of Fthgnithl.
The problem there is that those things, taken literally, just ain’t true. Just like if you got tired of explaining why the momentum of water in the washing machine makes the water drain through the clever holes in the side, and you told someone that when it spins, it makes it go to the outside. When actually it does nothing of the sort. Instead it keeps trying to go in a straight line.
All I would ask of you atheist folks is that you consider the possibility that when I, not seeming otherwise stupid, use a term that you don’t use, that you don’t insist that the legitimate meaning is the one that fell into use by people who never understood the concept beyond the analogy and metaphor level. Not that you grant that such is so. Just that you hold onto the possibility.
I’ve thought about this one. The trouble is, if that happened, at least three explanations are available: 1) the fundamental order of the universe is turned upside down to allow magic and gods; 2) somebody someplace has powers far beyond what I can imagine but it’s not supernatural; 3) I must have miscalculated a dosage.
I actually already believe 2 must be true, even without seeing star writing.
I once spent an evening only 24" tall, standing and pivoting at the ankles and alternately touching the ground in front of me and behind me with my hands. PCP was involved, but I did have the experience, saw it with my own two eyes. So I think 3 is perfectly plausible.
Since I can’t quite swallow 1, I’m not going to jump to it to explain a funny sky event.
It would have to be seen by most everyone, of course, and again I would accept it as evidence, not proof.
I’d find it easier to believe that someone could mess with perceptions than they could mess with time and space on that scale. But even if I could be convinced the latter were happening, my first response is “Okay so there’s an exception where things work differently. And there’s a more complex set of rules to which the rules we’ve been taught are an oversimplification that’s been good enough up until now”.
I don’t see the functional difference between a being who can move stars around and a god. I don’t think such a being exists or will ever exist, so this discussion is more pot-fueled college freshman dorm bullshitting than serious. But still I’d worship that being if benefits would follow, like I could cast cleric spells or something.
It’s the quality of being supernatural. Is something a part of the natural world, or does it transcend that and go above the natural?
A religious friend and I were discussing miracles. He believes in them. I asked how many miracles per second per cubic meter there were, as an average, throughout the universe. He’d never thought of it that way, which astounds me.
I think a universe in which one tiny miracle occurred someplace is completely different from a natural universe like I figure we live in. If you have one tiny miracle, then, why not miracles everywhere explaining everything?
Plus it would be recorded. If only I saw this, I’d reject it as evidence out of hand.
You hear a lot of theists using personal experiences as evidence. If God ever popped into my head, I’d want two weeks of stock tips. One week to verify, one week for me to make money. What we hear from theists with these experiences, though, is that god will send them a solution to their problem. Not very convincing.
The reason I’m willing to accept my example as evidence is no no small part due to the unlikelihood I’ll ever have to. And I’ll wait until it happens before worrying about what counts as supernatural. I doubt I’ll ever have to worry about that issue.
As an atheist I am only saying I don’t have faith. I am also saying (and this was clear, I think, in context of my entire post from which you quoted one sentence) that faith is not a valid means of accessing the facts of reality. Of course, if you are going to define “a god” as a very powerful being whose operations and functionality appear equivalent to magic, you might someday stumble across evidence for such a being. I think that is a category error.
I guess I don’t really care about the word supernatural. To me supernatural means things like ghosts and vampires and magic. Those things don’t exist so they are supernatural. If they did exist they’d be natural. Same with God. Q from Star Trek is a god as far as I’m concerned. The distinction between god and a being with god-like powers is non-existent.
That seems to be the case for this “atheist folk” at least. There is always the possibility that what is being proposed is true but, get your story straight. I’ve neither the time nor the inclination to expend energy on sorting the wheat from the chaff. That others who align with you are using terms in a way that you don’t agree with is not my problem.
The burden of clarifying the claim and explaining what you mean is on you. Tell me clearly what your words mean to you in a manner that is understandable. If you can’t, I
quite correctly remain unmoved and unconvinced.
I’m cool with that. Yeah the burden is on me to make sense to you if I’m the one seeking to communicate.
I’m actually not invested in convincing you. If it comes up in discussions where it’s relevant, that’s different.
I agree, and it is why I’ve said previously that the very first question to ask people who are seeking to convince you is some variation of “please define what you mean by a/the/your god”
I’m still not sure I understand; they say you’re going to hell specifically because you are a different faith, but do not grasp that you are of a different faith? Sorry, but this is just a bit past my apparent ability to comprehend, I suppose.
Well, yes, but my point was that you said this:
This sentence just doesn’t make logical sense to be. “Deities might be possible, I just don’t know” simply does not logically lead to “This person must regard faith and reason as of equal value in discovering truth about existence.” Those don’t connect that I can see.
“Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/interestingasfuck.”
Here’s the scripture certain Christians use,
(People,) who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Romans 1:18
There are no other ‘’‘faiths’‘’, their god is the only real god because their book says their god is the only real god and you only deny that fact because God allows it.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened (by God).
Romans 1:21
I suspect you are way too rational to understand their thought processes. I’m going to hell because I persist in believing that evilution. (My faith or lack thereof is not something I ever bring up.) I suspect they think I’m Christian because they can’t imagine any other possibilities.
I think imagining their opponents are going to hell (especially those who out argue them) get these people excited.
Well, we have to start the conversation with some agreement on what words mean. I like the beginning of the Wikipedia article on “Deity”:
A deity or god is a supernatural being who is considered divine or sacred.
Also the article on “Supernatural”:
Supernatural refers to phenomena or entities that are beyond the laws of nature.
“God” doesn’t mean much if you disconnect it from natural versus supernatural.
I disagree with Wikipedia, and you, but it’s certainly the mainstream theistic interpretation.
My faith is the natural human state, and anyone who does not exhibit explicit, obvious indications that they believe differently is normal and believes like we do. Some of them might have a few defects in their belief patterns, but those can be corrected, bringing them in line with us.
Tell them you are an atheist/agnostic/pagan/whateverist and they will get confused, because you sure look normal.