If someone I knew ever expressed such a sentiment after I had helped them in any way, I would just stop helping them. That’s bizarre. How can you go through life this way?
Well, that means X= being that created the universe, and Y&Z are both blank. It’s a perfectly workable definition of God, and it is absolutely a definition of God, with very specific testable attributes, should we ever meet Him.
One doesn’t need to know the specifics of every religion to identify attributes that make a thing “religion”. If a social group says nothing about what God is, what God does, and what God wants of us, is it a religion?
I never had Sunday School because such a thing doesn’t exist here, but I had religious ed at regular schools from grade 1-11. Though my teachers were Catholic priests or laypeople, I never was shy to express this kind of objections or questions, just the opposite, engagement like this was encouraged. Though I practically was an atheist by the age of 11-12 and wasn’t shy to express my doubts and views in religious class, I always got A’s or B’s.
Hunting for gods has become the ultimate “moving the goalposts” event.
He lives in another land.
He lives in the sky.
He lives in space.
He lives farther off in space.
He lives Outside The Universe.
If we ever get a chance to take a peek Outside The Universe( whatever the hell that means), the believers will find a way to move him yet again, I guarantee.
If Y & Z are both blank, I don’t see how it fits your definition of what you think every religion does.
Good question. I don’t think we have a good clear definition of what “religion” is, to start with. It’s rather an “I know it when I see it” and people differ about in which cases they’re seeing it.
If a social group comes together to perform group rituals, which are done repeatedly in a similar form, and at which they say they feel a sense of one-ness with everything and possibly that they’re helping to keep their world in balance; but they don’t say anything related to those rituals about God, the creation of the universe, or laws people are supposed to follow (other than possibly that it’s good to show up for the rituals, this is how they’re done, and don’t fight with each other during them): would that be a religion?
Maybe those that actually have a god.
Or is your definition in religion belief in a super natural being (or more than one for some religions)?
I don’t find anything to be the “worst thing”. Why would there be?
Oh sure, agree; it’s just that to me, the sort of “I’m glad about this” intentional awareness that you’re describing feels somewhat different from the more… specifically interactive? feelings of thankfulness and praise that I associate with the concept of “gratitude”.
No, I don’t mean (unlike some of the religious relatives that other posters have been mentioning) that “interactive” gratitude necessarily has to be directed at a deity rather than a fellow human or some other entity. Just that ISTM that believers in a benevolent deity in a way have freer scope for what I called “generalized expression of gratitude” (emphasis added). YMMV of course.
Would that also apply to someone who is a theist and would not change the way they live their life if it were proven there was no god of any kind? I kinda fit there.
IMHO, another Doper had an often-little-mentioned point, above: one frustration for atheists is that, in their worldview, when Christians, Muslims, or whoever else religious dies, they don’t get their comeuppance after death - “the religious won’t realize they were wrong” - rather, they just fade into instant black nothingness with no consciousness.
I suppose it comes from some innate desire to understand why and how the universe works. As we understand more about the actual mechanics of the universe, the concept of “God” as someone or something that controls or designs those mechanics gets more complex.
But really for most people it’s just a lot of wu to give their life some meaning and purpose.
The word “apatheist” literally means indifferent to the (possible) existence of any deity. An intractable believer is really kind of the opposite of that, though it does seem likely that solid scientific proof of the total impossibility of the most popular deity/theology or anything similar to it would not yield short-term sea changes to society in general, and maybe not even long-term changes, as churches seem to be really good, or at least quick, at moving the goalposts.
Fair point. I was being inexcusably Abraham-centric.
What separates religion from philosophy if not some introduction of the supernatural? Karma, resurrection, spirits, those sorts of things separate Buddhism from Pacifism, Taoism from Environmentalism or Communism.
Something has to separate secular meetings and secular concepts from the religious, otherwise, what you described is yoga class, or maybe an AA meeting. My son’s Boy Scout meetings involve repeated rituals, but aside from mentioning a nebulous Duty to God, it’s not religion.
Paraphrased from the Wiki article’s talk page:
If you ask an apatheist whether God exists, he says, "Look what I got on sale at the mall today!”
To quote Terry Pratchett, "…when you hit your thumb with an eight-pound hammer it’s nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout, “Oh, random-fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!” or “Aaargh, primitive-and-outmoded-concept on a crutch!”
Spirits and/or resurrection don’t require gods; let alone a The God who created the universe.
I don’t think what I described is like any yoga class around here – but yoga classes vary, and there are certainly versions of yoga that are considered religious.
And separating secular from religious matters is pretty much a modern invention. I very much doubt that the people at the origins of religion did any such thing.
I just curse myself, since that’s who messed up.
(Also, hold the nail in the tines of a comb if you have to.)
Use a CheneyWoodpecker style hammer to hold the nail and gently push it into place, then reverse the hammer to really pound it home.
You know how some people will bouncily say," A stranger is just a friend you haven’t met yet!" ?
Well, I say (medium-bouncily), “The Supernatural is just nature you haven’t met yet!”
Yes. And therefore don’t understand yet. Haven’t taken into account in your mental models yet.
Also, let’s have some appreciation for somewhat metaphorical constructions like Ozzy Osborne saying “rock and roll is my religion”. Instead of being pedantically purist and saying “doesn’t count cuz no all-powerful supernatural being in charge of things” we should recognize an important truth here: if it isn’t relevant to you, if it doesn’t occupy the center of your sense of what’s important, that’s when we should dismiss a candidate — “doesn’t count because what you described would not be very important to me in the overall scheme of things”.
And that’s the problem with most of the simplistic notions of God: even if they were spot-on accurate, the resulting entity would not occupy that space for me. Probably not for most of you either. Take Yahweh for instance: if the dude were for real, would your heart rejoice? Would you worship the sunnuvabitch? Would it give your life (more) meaning, explain anything to you about why things are so or what is right or ethical or moral?