Threats are symbols. “Do what I say or you die” is a string of symbols, and a threat. A noose is more succinct, but no less of a threat.
I suppose it is a threat in the same sense that “every American in Iraq should die” or “religious people should all die” is a threat.
Regards,
Shodan
If you make that statement to an individual, to their face - it is a threat. Without the individual targeting component, it stops being a threat (or at least based on the California code I posted above).
I welcome the local legal types to help explain how the courts determine a threat versus just asshole speech.
No matter what the law says, an indiscriminate threat is still a threat. If I nail a sign saying “All blacks must die” or “Kill black people” up on a tree, do you really think that black people wouldn’t take it as a threat ?
And exactly what do you think the noose is saying? What is the threat?
“Death to black people”; it’s meant that for a long time.
I think if the noosehangers had been expelled none of this Jena shit would have happened.
The administrators would have been able to say “We don’t want this shit in our schools” and if any of the same racial flareups happened, then only the individuals would be to blame instead of all the finger pointing that happened.
Interesting point about is it against the law for a general threat. My wag would be it is much like the cross burning mentioned earlier.
with all due respect, a noose isn’t just a threat against black people in America. Certainly, that’s the most immediate example that springs to mind, but lynch mobs used nooses on more than just blacks. And of course, Nazi’s, the Soviets and Communist States used leaving the victim hanging as a method of intimidation.
How is that different than the situations Shodan mentions?
Nothing. It is not a direct threat to anyone personally. It is a form of expression and is covered by the the first amendment. It is also a complete asshole thing to do given the popular symbology of the noose to blacks. Being an asshole isn’t illegal though and it shouldn’t be.
Acid, again, if this noose had been hung in a non-specific location, I’d agree with your assessment. This was hung an a black professor’s office door.
While I don’t by any means know if it’s an immediate threat to her life, I do seriously believe that it’s something more than just “free speech.”
Look at it like this. Since I don’t know (or want to know) what ethnicity you are, let’s just say for the sake of argument that your ethnic group was randomly but routinely shot in the head by my ethnic group, as recent as the 1960’s.
Now let’s further say that my ethnic group stopped doing this. But elements of my ethnic group still loudly proclaim to want to shoot people of your ethnic group in the head.
And then one day you find a large caliber pistol bullet left specifically where you will find it. Would you feel that this was just free speech?
If this will help persuade you of anything, consider this: Der Trihs and I would have a hard time agreeing on the color of an orange. Yet from what I have read here, we’re in near-perfect agreement on this matter.
Nooses and swastikas on billboards, pamphlets, random bits of public property: free speech. It’s reprehensible, for sure, but protected.
Nooses and swastikas left on people’s homes, personal property, or place of business: potentially some level of threat. We would need to see into the mind of the perpetrator to know for certain whether it was just an asshole prank, a hollow warning, or something more sinister.
But simply dismissing it as “free speech” in this case is grossly insensitive, and potentially dangerous.
Let the punishment fit the crime. If it’s an asshole prank, put the perp’s face on every bulletin board at Columbia, and let him live with the social consequences of his actions. If it’s some misguided attempt at free speech, expel the asshole. His right to free speech does not trump Columbia’s right, as a private entity, to ban speech if finds disruptive to the environment they desire on their property.
If it seems like it was some sort of warning or threat of physical violence, some sort of assault charge might be in order.
But all that’s the cart-in-front-of-the-horse, so to speak.
It may have meant that to black people. It sure didn’t mean that to me.
snip mine)
I’ve given this some thought, and my honest response is that I’d be a little worried. I would probably report it to the local authorities and maybe ask that a little extra security be added to the rotation around my offices. There is however a degree of implied threat removed between a bullet and a noose. Until someone left me a direct threat I wouldn’t be more concerned than my above actions.
Wait…Someone hung a moose? How is that even possible? Those things are huge…
But I guess it depends…was the moose in season? Is that any less human than shooting a moose?
A Moose? Wow, that must have been hard. Ever try to get those things to hold still long enough to get the rope over those huge antlers? I can tell YOU, it’s not easy! Not that I would know… or anything like that…
This has been a good discussion to read. I have some fairly strong feelings about this situation. I think the kids who hung the noose should be punished by the school, and taken home by their Dad who should immediately escort the child to the wood shed for a through “education” regarding using the common cents the Good Lord gave him. Secondly, the gang that beat the other boy after he lost consciousness should be tried for attempted murder and if convicted, receive the penalty appropriate for the crime!
The argument that it wasn’t attempted murder is ridicules to say the least! A group of young teen boys has within its collective strength more then enough power to kill someone by kicking them in the head. The fact that he didn’t die is why it is “attempted” and not murder. I would feel this way regardless of race.
no…like a moose. One positive supposed characteristic of said people.