What should non-Americans be expected to know about the US?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Maybe I’ve just had the misfortune to run into some jerks, but I had couple instances in my youth when I’d mention some facet of Americana to a foreigner, and they would know what I was talking about, but inject a sneering: “Aha! See, you Americans expect everyone to know about George Washington, but do YOU know who the first Prime Minister of CANADA is?? Fools!” Or something along those lines. I don’t think it was ever anything related to American geography; on that level I would expect very little from non-Americans, except being able to pick out the United States on a map and knowing generally where the capitol is located. I’d be pleasantly surprised if they were able to pick out a couple states.

And for the record, I might be able to name all the boroughs of NYC if I thought about it a bit, but I don’t think I’d get any of them right on a map except for Manhattan!

But spin it around for a minute. What would you think if you met an American high school or college graduate who knew literally zilch about, for example, Great Britain? Wouldn’t that make you seriously question the quality of their education? Or even if they only knew that the Brits speak English, use the pound, and are an island off of the coast of Europe? I would think an educated American should at least have a passing familiarity with things like the British Empire, Queen Victoria, Winston Churchill, the Blitz, Margaret Thatcher, etc. Nothing detailed, just something general like “Oh yeah, Winston Churchill – he’s the guy who was in charge of Britain during WWII, right?” Just something to show they paid attention in school and read a book every now and then, even if they don’t otherwise give a damn about the UK and don’t really care for history.

By the same token, isn’t it reasonable for educated people in other countries to at least have a general sense of the US? I just don’t know what that “general sense” should include. So, for example, what about the following things:

George Washington?
The American Revolution?
The Declaration of Independence?
The American Civil War?
Abraham Lincoln?
The Great Depression?
Franklin Roosevelt?
Pearl Harbor?
The Senate, House of Representatives, Supreme Court?
The Constitution?

What, if any, of those would an educated person in a foreign country be expected to have a very passing familiarity with?

22

First, I agree that people really should be aware that the hysterical stereotypes are not true of the vast majority of Americans.

Second, the size thing. The place is big. Really big. A lot of the faults people from other countries find in us stem, I think, from their ignorance of the sheer size of the country. Yes, it sure is easy to have been to a dozen countries, when each of them is basically a day trip away. I’ve been to a dozen states.

Third, it would be nice if they had some inkling about states being able to enact laws and levy taxes independently of the national government, that we have a president, that we have a congress, and that all of them are obligated to stand for re-election on a regular basis.

Beyond that, I don’t expect anything, really.

23

I’ll admit to this: I’ve tried in the past to understand how the American government functions, yet still glaze over as the descriptions of the Senate and the House of Representatives drone on. The important thing is that America is a functioning democracy - no two democracies are alike, and each has a system of governance which evolves according to necessity.

24

If we had better standards for world history, world politics, world geography, &c., I might be more inclined to agree that others can be expected to know more about the States. Part of my reasoning comes from Americans thinking that Germans live in mud huts and things like that.

That was in 2001, and it was a news report on a murder trial (?), and the reporter said that the judge said that if the defendant didn’t answer some pointed questions, then his non-answers would be taken as incriminating. The people we stayed with confirmed this. But that might make sense, since the opinion you quoted from was handed down a year later. Was that decision a significant change in law?

25

AFAIK, it (and later derivations such as the Fifth Amendment) actually originate in British Common Law. Will have to do some digging to find cites, but I was always taught it was a fundamental right.

26

Any vague phrase can be interpreted in many ways. Both countries have a right to freedom of speech, a right to protection from cruel or unusual punishment, and so on. These are interpreted differently by different legal systems.

27

I don’t understand the British system much better than you do the American. All I know is that you have the House of Commons and the House of Lords, and you have a prime minister instead of a president, and the Queen theoretically governs over all of it but doesn’t really. I know you don’t have elections for prime minister the way we do for president, and your legislature has a way of getting a Prime Minister to step down that seems less severe and more common than how our Congress can get a President to step down. That’s about it.

I’d agree. Most world history classes in high schools are terrible and don’t get as far as WWII unless they’re AP classes (mine wasn’t, and we only got as far as WWI). Most of us know maybe a little more about the UK than we do about other countries, because they were more involved than most countries in American history.

28

Here, you go, according to Wikipedia (have pinch of salt at the ready):

[quote]
The Criminal Justice Act 1994 amended the right to silence by allowing inferences to be drawn by the jury in cases where a suspect refuses to explain something, and then later produces an explanation (in other words the jury is entitled to infer that the accused fabricated the explanation at a later date, as he or she refused to provide the explanation during the time of the Police questioning. The jury is also free not to make such an inference).[/quite]So it did exist but it was eroded by the Conservative government - an erosion no doubt eagerly pursued by Blair ever since.

Also from memory, there’s an ongoing issue over here about speed cameras, which only capture registration details. The owner of a speeding car is currently obliged to reveal who was driving it when the camera was triggered - and if it was the owner, then their right not to self-incriminate has been breached. Another here you go.

29

These (seemingly-endless) stories about human rights vs. speed cameras piss me off. I can see how there’s an argument about self-incrimination, but only a very weak one (identification of oneself as the driver not being an admission of guilt). How about if I’m caught red-handed putting a brick through a window, and refuse to give my name - could I plead the fifth? :wink:

30

I’d hope that if they were at all bright they would have a clue about :

The Bacons, Francis and Roger, and why,
Isaac Newton,
Adam Smith,
Michael Faraday,
David Hume,
John Stewart Mill,
James Clerk Maxwell,
Charles Darwin,

this list would be much longer if we were to allow mere advances rather than innovation.

Some events and some people. You don’t have an enormously impressive list, especially since there is no Ben Franklin. Why, for example, do you think that The Great Depression is something that others should associate with the US? It was worse in other places. And don’t let anyone think that Pearl Harbor was a unique tragedy.

31

While you’ve got some very valid points about things that any educated person should know, it won’t help if this degenerates into a pissing contest. (See my comment about Cromwell.)

32

What’s an AP class?

That’s probably true of most countries. Here in the UK we pick up a lot of Americana because of the common language, similar culture and historical ties. We see lots of American movies, TV and so on, so it’s not just stuff we learn at school and then forget. On the other hand, I doubt if many people here (or in the USA) could say much about the history of China, despite its importance in the world, and it’s safe to say the vast majority of us know nothing at all about places like, say, Equatorial Guinea.

33

Sorry. Advanced Placement, which means it’s a high school class where you can take a standardized test toward the end of the class and get college credit if you do well enough (how much college credit you get will vary by college). AP classes are generally more advanced than regular high school classes, and high schools tend to care more about who teaches them than they do about who teaches the regular classes.

34

His election was fairly newsworthy though, given his previous history as an actor. I doubt that the salesman, or any other Australian for that matter, could tell you the previous Californian governor’s name. Most Australians would be pushed to name the governor of their own state.

35

“Advanced Placement.” They’re supposed to be more difficult and for the better students.

jjimm, thanks for the info.

GorillaMan, the your hypothetical isn’t analogous. When you’re caught throwing the brick in flagrante delicto, they caught you and can identify you as the person throwing the brick. With the speed camera, they don’t get who is doing the traffic violation.

It does present an interesting problem: there is no protection against incriminating another (unless it’s a spouse & one is in the States), so presumably one would have to identify another driver if one wasn’t driving; however, one can refuse to answer if one was driving, and yet no guilt can be inferred from that. Heh.

As silly as that seems, I sure as shit would rather get rid of traffic cameras than begin any erosion of the Fifth Amendment…especially with the current U.S. Supreme Court. :wink:

36

Ditto Britain, replacing governor-of-own-state with MP.

37

All of those, but in most cases it’s just a very vague general idea. e.g. few people know much more about Roosevelt than that he was President during most of WWII and perhaps that he participated in the Yalta summit.
Except for the Wall Street crash, few people would know much US-specific about the Great Depression but more people would understand that it was the American aspect of the same crisis that troubled Germany at the time.

I think it’s unfair to blame Americans for it, but to us it feels as if there was a difference in expectations. Probably the influence of American popular culture made some topics common knowledge in the western world even when they are more relevant to the US. For example if a German told people that he had never heard of Lincoln, we would consider him a complete idiot. At the same time I suspect that it wouldn’t be considered equally bad if you asked an American about Bismarck and he couldn’t think of anything besides the city.

38

You’re right, it was a silly comparison.

However, the legal battles will descend into examinations of boring things such as exactly what the right/privilege to drive on public roads entails, that kind of thing. And don’t be surprised if an element of common sense gets thrown into the mix at the last minute.

39

I should just say that the only reason that the speed camera issue is being presented as a “human rights” issue is that the ECHR is the ultimate legal arbiter that the UK government has deferred our judiciary to. And actually, on principle of law, it is an issue that needs to be decided by precedent, IMO, because it does breach a Common Law right. I’m sure the cops will win out in the end, but it needs to be hammered out properly, rather than this very British shilli-shalla that we have at the moment.

40

A fair argument, I suppose, though I don’t see why the fact that many Americans are ignorant means we should just lower expectations for everyone.

Sorry it’s not impressive enough for you. The point was to try to get the discussion going by throwing some things out there, not to make my definitive list of things people should know. (Note the question marks.) So what do you think should be on the list?

Also, Pearl Harbor was not unique in the sense that thousands of bombs are dropped all over the world every year and cause equal tragedy for those whose lives they destroy. But not all bombings have equivalent historical consequences, and that is where Pearl Harbor makes the list of American historical milestones. Whether or not it was significant enough to make the select list of things that people should know about the US is up for debate.