What should the President have done? (Spoliers for Fail Safe)

Cafe Society
1

Not sure what forum is most suitable for this question but as it was sparked by the film…

I’ve just watched the 2000 live-action version of Fail Safe with George Clooney and Harvey Keitel and while it required some suspension of disbelief (mostly the parts with the ongoing air-battle on the ‘big boards’) I thought it was well done and acted.

There’s a spoiler warning above so this shouldn’t give anything away, basic premise is that in the sixties a malfunction sends a group of US bombers from their fail-safe point on a mission to vapourise Moscow and the ensuing panic in Washington and NORAD as to how to react to this unexpected situation.

The US President eventually decides that the only way to convince the Soviets that it was a genuine mistake and avoid all out war is to offer New York as an equivalent sacrifice for Moscow.

Was this the only way or how else could the situation have been resolved?

Interesting film I thought!

2

Hell of a position for a POTUS to be in. There’s not a clear cut “right” solution.

One option would be to scramble U.S. fighters to shot down the bombers. Been a long time since I saw the movie, but I think maybe there was some reason they couldn’t do that.

Vectoring in Soviet fighters would be another possible option–but there may not have been enough trust on either side to do that.

Nuking Hawaii instead of New York would be better for the surrounding states, but I dunno that the Soviets would accept that.

As a gambit, the President could offer himself as a sacrifice…either to stand trial under Russian law, or go all Bud Dwyer on live TV after explaining what happened.

And there’s the final option–accept responsibility for starting WW3, and try like hell to win it.

If it was me, I don’t know that I could bring myself to order one of my own cities nuked. If my gambit option was rejected, I suspect my inclination would be to fight it out.

3

They did order the escorting fighters to turn around when they realised the problem but they were too far away to reach them on time and the Soviets rejected the Americans initial offer of help to shoot them down.

There was a bit of hand-waving in the movie as to the exact capabilities and numbers of each side and I’m not sure what could have been done in real life military wise to stop them. If such a scenario was even possible in real life (I’d like to hope not!)

Of course another point is they were lucky it was bombers that were on their way to Moscow, what if it was an ICBM or worse again an SLBM with only a few minutes flight time…and thus a few minutes decision time… :eek:

I felt more sorry for General Black, the bomber pilot ordered to actually drop American nukes on an American city…

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Probably the same way any other military accident is covered , we accept responsiblity and pay reparations. Its really up to the other side , in that it depends on whether they want to walk around with a shiner or be in national traction for the next several decades.

I would assume that , the movie made during the cold war, berlin and Gitmo would have been turned over to the soviets a pull out of Europe , effectively a surrender but nothing that could not be handled, and in some cases it may have been benenficial.

Declan

5

Especially because his wife was in New York City at the time on a shopping trip.

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I don’t remember if they changed this for the 2000 remake referred to in the OP, but in the original movie it was the President’s wife that was in New York City on a shopping trip. I remember a shot in the movie of a newspaper story about her trip, and somebody commenting on it, saying something about “Does the President realize…?” “Yes, he does.”

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Yes, the president’s wife was in NYC.

Given the Cold War tensions of the time, the attack on Moscow would have triggered retaliation. An “Oops, my bad” would have done no good: the Soviets would have believed the US did it on purpose and would have sent their missiles off.

It had to be New York because it was the country’s largest city (though Washington DC would have worked in the scenario). Dropping the bomb on Honolulu wouldn’t have been the same.

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I doubt such a thing was even possible IRL, but if it had happened, I think the most likely outcome would have been a decision to declare all out war and take our chances.

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How would the United States have reacted if the Soviets had “accidentally” launched a single nuclear attack on Washington or New York? What, if anything, could they do to placate the Americans in such a situation?

10

My mistake. I thought the pilot’s wife was in New York also, for some reason. I’ve only seen the original, not the remake.

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Re: Sending fighters after the bombers.

(This is for the original film, as I didn’t know there was a remake.) After the fighters were sent, knowing they would probably not catch the bombers and would not have enough fuel to return and the pilots would die in the freezing ocean, there’s a powerful scene as the fighters disappear one by one from the Big Board.

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Nothing to add to the discussion, but I will offer this:

In the earlier novel “Two Hours to Doom” (also known as “Red Alert”), a serious story which would later evolve into the black comedy “Dr. Strangelove,” the nukes go off, but short of Moscow. It’s been a while since I read it, but I think the president had made the same offer to nuke one of our own cites—or allow the Sovs to—but ended up not having to since Moscow was actually saved.

This novel also has one of the early occurrences of the phrase “pushing the button” in reference to a nuclear strike.

BTW, at least in the original, the casting and the acting are both masterpieces, althought I never really got the reason for Walter Matthau’s offense of the cutie’s coming on to him.

And “Boss Hogg” as the visiting senator!

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And “J R Ewing” as the interpreter.

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I’ve seen both the original and the Clooney remake. Let’s see if I can recall what did happen.

U.S. orders their fighters to intercept and if necessary shoot down the bombers, but the fighters ran out of fuel before they could reach the bombers.

Both the President and the group commander’s wife personally appeal the crews to break off the attack, but the commander is trained to ignore any communications past X point.

U.S. tells the Soviets to ignore one unarmed bomber and concentrate their defenses on the bombers carrying the nukes. The Soviets think it’s a trick, continue trying to get all the bombers on the attack run and wind up shooting down the wrong one.

U.S. tells the Soviets how to jam the bombers’ electronic defenses, but the bomber crews manage to overcome the interference.

Obviously these points were covered briefly in the movies. I didn’t read the book, so I don’t know whether there was a longer explanation of why each of these tactics failed, or a longer discussion of whether the Soviets were deploying their own bomber forces, missile-launching subs, etc. In any case, the plot was set up to leave the President with three options:

Do nothing and let the Soviets take whatever revenge they saw fit after Moscow got nuked

Launch an all-out war on the assumption the Soviets would do the same

Make a huge sacrifice to atone and hope the Soviets accept it and go no further.

Doing nothing was not an option, as the Soviets would have retaliated. An all-out follow-up was dismissed, so the question really comes down to what sort of symbolic atonement would be sufficient.

From a literary/dramatic standpoint there are only two options – we nuke one of our own cities (it really doesn’t matter whether it’s New York, Washington or wherever) or the President goes on TV, takes responsibility and commits suicide.

If the President commits suicide, then there’s no one left to negotiate a treaty with the Soviet premier (who also survived) to prevent a future mistake and the ending is even more bleak. Therefore, the only option was for the President to sacrifice a city to save the world.

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And Henry Fonda as… Henry Fonda, pretty much.

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Fail Safe is one of my favorite movies. Sidney Lumet ftw.

I think offering NYC as a sacrifice was a bit of a stretch but not entirely unimaginable. The president would have been crucified in the US for specifically ordering millions of americans to be obliterated. The fact that his wife was in the town at the time should placate those people, but they’ll probably just say it was the most elaborate cover-up plot to kill his wife ever. Most Americans would probably maintain that “who cares” if we accidentally blew up Moscow. Good riddance.

It’s a good demonstration of how a morals and ethics can sometimes be completely divergent.

Realistically, there’s a decent chance that Russia wouldn’t have retaliated. They might have given the US a 24 hour deadline to prove that it was an accident, and perhaps hand over the Americans responsible for trial in Russia. In the movie, though, the Russian military leaders were already to get a counterattack started.

Besides the acting, I just love the ethical dilemma the movie presents. There’s really no easy way around it. If you’re irrevocably about to blow up Moscow, how do you convince them it was a mistake and avoid a world-ending nuclear holocaust?

I also liked the military leader who was fundamentally unable to tell the Russians how their technology worked. Assholish, but entirely believable.

The Clooney version wasn’t bad, but it didn’t have the Fonda factor. Wylie’s interpreter was good, though.

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I don’t understand the idea that the president committing suicide would have been a viable option. The Russians would have responded with “So what? We still lost A FUCKING CITY. You already have a new preisdent.”

18

You mean Major Nelson…

19

And Captain Chaos as the Tech Sargent!

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Both the Presidents wife and the pilots wife are in New York at the time.

I found it interesting how they produced such a watchable film with basically no special effects. The moment that sticks in my mind is the American diplomat describing the last-ditch defence of Moscow from the roof of the embassy…made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up so it did…and nothing in the scene but the president, his translator and a phone.

I have the original book by Eugene Burdick but haven’t read it yet, I’ll also have to check out the original and Two Hours Till Doom/Red Alert.

A movie in a similar vein is the 1990 HBO Special ‘By Dawns Early Light’ which is also worth watching.