What the heck is going on with the Royal Family ("Megxit")

Factual Questions
41

OP here. Just re-read the first and so far only statement from the couple. Something about them “stepping back” from a “senior” members of the Royal Family.

So now I’ve got some terms of art to work with. In one sense, the biological one, the can no more “step back” than any son or daughter [-in law] who says “I hate you you’re not my Daddy/Mommy/Grandma.”

So, am I right (and forgive me if this in a cite above I didn’t track) in assuming that the word/distinction “senior” is a term of art somewhere, somehow? Which means Jack-shit to Parliament, etc., who handle the money anyway? I do learn from here [thanks!] that the disposition/apportioning of the granted Sovereign Trust is in the hands of the Sovereign, who can do whatever she damn pleases.

Which leads me to conclude that that statement, including the weird/vacuous/undefined “stepping back” is, as would be assumable by all accounts to be no more than a Meghan fuck-you to the family (Harry’s backing for other reasons not considered) and to the British sentiment-led-reflected by an antagonistic press (although at the beginning it was storybook, complete with boffo wedding).
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Hell, the Queen, like my now deceased Oma, could keep sending him checks when–in that distant time when, as he claims, will achieve “financial independence.”

Note that of course the actual facts of the prospects (as the couple framed it) or their current bank account as they make the leap into a difficult labor environment [tip, Harry: learn to code] was not OP, but is always fun to kick around.

However, on this, again I thank the posters for clarifying some aspects of their current finances, such as their not having a Duchy and how that affects their income.

42

FYI, the Sovereign Grant is only five percent of Harry and Meghan’s income. The rest is from his father’s duchy.

43

If someone else is going to become Duke, will they pass the duchy down the left hand side?

44

What?

45

This

46

I don’t see why they wouldn’t cut back. This would be easier for Meghan Markle, who has had a more “normal” job and hasn’t lived that lifestyle for very long.

I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t get by with a single house, a security detail, and a caregiver for their children. Even if Mrs. Markle goes back to acting, her beauticians would be paid out of her pay or by the studio. (I think actors count as self-employed, so they would be an expense against her pay.) I don’t see any need for her to buy more high-end fashion accessories than she did prior to leaving her job.

47

There’s a possibility of some of Harry’s cousins taking on some sort of public Royal role. However whether they would want to is another question.

48

She was almost certainly given the high end fashion stuff for free and will continue to do so like every other celebrity in the public eye.

49

Prove the nut-bar conspiracy theorists’ right; convert to Islam and say it was his mother’s last wish for him and his brother.

On a more serious note I hope Canada isn’t going become a Royal refuge. I dislike the archaic system enough when it’s at arm’s length, but now they might be here playing up “our shared ties”. Augh. The young Royals are so sickening popular people are campaigning for Harry as GG.

50

Yes, but basing the plans for your organization on the assumption that all of your senior workers are going to continue to be able and willing to work into their 90s is perhaps not wise.

Which uncles and aunts and cousins would those be? Anne, Edward, and Sophie are already in this until they can’t do it any longer; Andrew is out for other reasons. There aren’t any other aunts and uncles. If you are looking to meet and greet a royal, Mr. Peter Phillips doesn’t have quite the same cachet as His/Her Royal Highness, and among the cousins only Beatrice and Eugenie have royal titles. The former has shown no interest in undertaking royal engagements; Eugenie has, and I think we’ll see more of her, but she’s only one person.

51

No. Prince Philip stopped doing royal engagements more than two years ago.

52

with apologies to the Country Bears

Mods don’t Ban little Ludovic.
Mods don’t pound on his head.
Mods don’t ban little Ludovic.
I think you should shoot him instead.

53

The public duties of the royal family are something of a modern invention. The continued presence of the various senior members of the family in public events has been something that has propped up public support for, and justified the public spending on, them. It is astounding how often the notion of a “hard working” royal is used by members of the public to justify support for them.

Not that there has not been significant criticism of the extent of public spending. There was the Royal Flight, a fleet of four BAe 146 jet aircraft (100 place, four engine jet) kept by the air force for the exclusive use of the royals (until Charles decided to land one himself and ran off the runway). Or the ship, the Britannia, kept by the navy, ostensibly able to be converted to a hospital ship, but never actually used as anything but as a mobile hotel for the family. Both these are gone, but public scrutiny of value for money is never far from the surface. The Windsors are very wealthy in their own right. Queen Victoria saw to that. If the entire Windsor family was to abdicate, they would not be exactly poor. But the big ticket lifestyle would be gone.

Clearly the big deal here is that the number of active senior royals is not large. Elizabeth is limited in what she can do, Philip is clearly past it, Andrew is gone, Edward and Anne remain active, but Anne is 69. Charles is the big player, but not exactly young either. Camilla is not going to count by herself. Losing two young active players out of this group is not a small thing. The older players are going to be withdrawing from public duties in the near term. So soon it will be a much bigger loss. It is a 50% loss in the mid-term, and thus potentially a major issue. It essentially takes from play the carefully structured public duties of the core royal family, and leaves William in the position where, when he ascends the throne, there will be no other senior royals to participate in these duties. That is a big deal.

In terms of line of succession, 6th doesn’t sound all that special, but 2 of that 6 are essentially already guaranteed to ascend the throne in Harry’s lifetime. The risk is that it only takes one tragic car accident, or terrorist attack, to place Harry onto the guaranteed, not reserve, line of accession. So it isn’t tenable to plan ahead without him.

Withdrawing is probably intended to free them up from the generally agreed view that the royal are not allowed to express opinions on pretty much anything. Charles got roasted for daring to express an opinion on modern architecture. But this isn’t anything laid in stone, and convention is just that. Which way it goes for them will be played out in the media. Hot on the heels of Andrew’s debarcle this is a big deal for the Windsors. As a step on the reduction of the profile and role of the monarchy, this could be significant.

54

Not at all. The Duchess of Kent, wife of her cousin, decided to give up her share of official duties to concentrate on teaching music, and also became a Catholic, without any fuss at all. A bit further away in the line of succession, of course, and that announcement was managed with the Palace.

55

The paucity of adult Royals is something they have faced before, in this Queens Reign. Right after the death of Queen Mary (George VI mother) in 1953, the Royal Family had only 3 adult female members left (HM, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret). The solution was to get the Queens cousin, Princess Alexandra to full time Royal Duties and the wives of some of the Royal Dukes (the Queens cousins) to do so part time. Alexandra continued to carry out duties until 2013.

In the mid to late 1990’s, after the death of Diana and the exiling of Fergie and before Sophie married into the family, the family once again went down to 3 active adult female members (the Queen, Princess Alexandra and Anne, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret wee by this time unwell). In this case, they made Anne’s daughter, Zara Philips (she holds no title) to undertake some royal duties. Considering Anne’s children had not expected to be active Royals even part time, this was very inconvinient for them.

Now Andrew is gone for at least a few years and he won’t exactly be young even if he iseventually rehabilitated. And with Harry and Meghans “retirement”, there is now a paucity of full time, active Royals of either gender.

Males:
Charles, William, Edward.

Females:
The Queen, Camilla, Kate, Anne, Sophie

And Charles, Camilla and Anne are all over 70. Sophie and Edward are younger but still late 50’s. The Queen is over 90.

Williams kids are 7, 5,1. It will be at least 20 years before all of them can do full time work.

The option of briging in cousins like before is also problematic. Eugenie and Beatrice (Andrews daughters) are an option, but they are on pretty poor terms with their cousins these days. Edward’s kids are teenagers. More distant relatives kids (like those of the Queens cousins) generally were cut out of the inner family in the last 10-15 years and most of them have no experience or recognition anyway.

I am guessing poor Zara Philips will be dragged out again and they’ll put Edwards kids in earlier than the ever planned.

56

But it will go down a lot better if there’s a bit about how some proceeds will go to charity.

This is a two-person team. One will be the face of the business side, deciding on products and how to promote them. The other will be the face of the charity side. (Cf. Newman’s Own and such.)

57

I think the BBC needs to step up the Hollywood has done. The US is far larger and never lacks for coverage of a -Con or a ribbon cutting.

58

OP here again…Now that I/we have a goodish grip on the legal/papers-to-be-filed-or-not aspects of the finances of the recessionary Woke Royals, let me reframe the other part of OP, which is on the Ties That Bind in the family, biologically and/or “officially,” ie, what “senior” is.

We all remember and cite stuff that trumps (heh) biology in succession–conversion, fishy divorce, etc.

Now, this thread also covers who “gets to” cut ribbons and shake hands–we’re not at the level of who gets to be King, but it’s close by at least in this reframing.

Scene: five years from now, in Canada. Harry is happy and making money and on that score everything’s kosher in London. There, as suggested above, some Royal advisor pops up and says “OMG, we’re running out of A-list people to cut ribbons. The people are turning against us (are revolting :slight_smile: ) because they refuse to be placated with cousins of the Sovereign. We better call Harry.”

Harry says “Get bent. I renounced my senior position.”

Can someone, somewhere (perhaps some ancient advisor may respond (or might Parliament if the world went crazy and Parliament gave a shit) with documents approved somewhere in the past: “Dear Harry, you realize you’re precipitating an even bigger challenge and upset of Royal functioning. You say “get bent,” but you can’t just become not-a-senior member, that’s biology, so get your ass back here and do your job. If you really want to renounce this role for the American woman you love, or whatever the hell, sign here and take your medicine and have fun in [del]Bermuda[/del] Canada.”

Is there any sort of any legal thing going on that side, a la the other frequent tempest-in-a-teapot crises?

[YMMV on teapot/tempest size.]

59

Maybe not exactly like they are accustomed, but I imagine there are plenty of wealthy people who will be happy to let them use a yacht, vacation home or the occasional jet in order to get to hob nob with “royalty”.

60

ETA: The mix of perception-reality of Royalty is of course intrinsic to everything we’re talking about here, as has been noted above–eg if in the future God Forbid Harry needed to accede to the throne (is that the right verb?), and after all the Windsors take the long view, his cavalier attitude now would not exactly start off the new Kingdom on firm ground (insofar as anyone else cares in the Kingdom).

So my thinking might be that the best way is to settle this now, a la Edward, and ease him out.

Or maybe–here Im arguing against that–is bury the whole thing under the rug, don’t bust his balls the way in my scenario, precisely to avoid such a situation if it arrives.