Family safety? Freedom of choice? Money? Career opportunities that you didn’t have in the Old Country? Basic human rights oppression? You don’t want your daughters and sons raised under a dictator? The want of a better life?
I heard about this for the first time on network news last night (A week of rioting in a major world city and it only makes the news herer now – I love our world news). They didn’t have any problem with noting that most of the rioters were Muslim, mostly poor immigrants in the slums. They also stated that, although the police said thery did not chase the boys into an electrical station so that they got electrocuted, the rioters apparently believe this to be the case. Pretty clearly, it’s the spark that has ignited a lot of simmering anger that’s been building up for a long time.
Those wacky Pilgrims, bringing their flaky hybrid patchwork monotheism to the New World. They’ll never make it over there.
Stranger
Well, a lot of Irishmen who HATED England have migrated to England over the centuries, simply because they couldn’t find paying jobs at home.
Same principle.
Well I guess you could invade it.
From what I have heard, those are mostly riots of the youth. So in most cases it wasn’t really their choice.
That’s because the fact that they are Muslim is completely incidental to the story. The Chechens never wanted to be part of Russia and refused to sign the Federation agreement. Other majority Muslim republics opted to join the Russian Federation with not much reservation, such as Tatarstan.
What’s interesting is that this is a virtual carbon copy of something that happened in Australialast year and earlier this year
A community that feels oppressed, mistreated and disadvantaged is presented with some kind of a trigger event and BOOM. What it is or whether it actually happened doesn’t really matter, it’s just a matter of getting people’s emotions above boiling point.
I haven’t really been following the situation in Paris, so I can’t tell if yahoo are getting over-excited about the whole Islamist angle. The International Herald Tribune takes a slightly different view, stressing poverty and social breakdown and highlighting the role of the mosques in trying to calm things down. Personally I am more convinced by the view of it as a French version of Watts rather than Euro-Jihad 2005, but YMMV.
There’s a goodly amount of historical animosity between Chechnya and Mother Russia which has virtually nothing to do with religion, incluiding the forced deportation of the entire population during WWII (ostensibly to protect them, in reality to prevent them from rising up and declaring independence.) Today, Chechnya is a major junction in the massive system of oil pipelines that the Russians have running through the Caucasus region.
What’s happening with in Chechnya is a totally different situation than what is going on in Europe. The Chechnyan are agitating for autonomy; the immigrant Muslim populations in France and other European nations are responding to reactionary attitudes and resentment from the indigenous populations.
Stranger
Bets that Al Qida has helped escilate/aggrivate the Paris riots?
Any takers?
I think it’s a bit early for that. Let’s not drag out the Muslim=terrorist brush quite yet.
The unemployment rate is 30% is this particular housing project, so I’m wondering if a bunch of people just got fed up and went off. I’m appalled that it’s happening, but I’m not convinced yet that it’s a Muslim thing. I think it’s more of a poor thing.
That’s my take on it. Massive unemployment, minority status, no real sign of help on the horizon, a government that appears to be against them…all fuel for the fire. All it took was a spark or two (pun intended).
While we are waiting for clairobscur to fnd us hope I can help a bit …
Technically speaking the riots are not in Paris. Many Parisian are getting upset that ‘foreigners’ fail to undertsand this. The city of Paris is one of the most clearly defined I know of - Paris intra muros they say, lit. inside the walls, is cut off from the suburbs by a huge ring road (the Périphérique). THe metro lines usually only extend one stop beyong the périph. Something could be happening in a mere ten miles from where you live but, if it is technically in the suburbs, then it is the far side of the moon.
The rioters only come out at night.
The only ‘problem’ in Paris is that some suburban train services have been disrupted - the staff took action to protest after stones were thrown at trains on Wednesday night.
As far as I undertsand damage has been to cars and buildings only. Few if any injuries to people.
At present the CRS (riot police) are deployed but often choosing to withdraw rather than enflame things further.
Not me for one, don’t think they are needed. The spread is essentially a case of disinfranchised youth playing copycat.
Two of my students (‘students’ in this case being office workers who need English for their jobs) live in areas which have become involved - one a lady of ‘Afro-Caribbean’ origin in her late forties/fifties explained that the ‘youth’ in her suburb “wanted to be on TV like the others”; another (wite male similar age group) said that “they wanted to show they were stronger than the others” ie could cause more havoc than the lads in the next suburb. 
Personally I think the fact that it started during school holidays is a factor - the ‘kids’ were bored out of their minds with literally nothing at all to do.
However if the army is sent in … well …
Read this for a first hand account of what’s going on.
France prides itself on having a very clear delinniation between state and religion. The ‘headscarf ban’ was in fact a clarification of the situation - every september there would be at least one news story about some young lass being excluded from her school because she wanted to wear her headscarf - in theory it bans all ‘overt religious symbols’ so a child wouldn’t be allowed in wearing a crucifix over a certain size or kippa either. So it follows that the ban is just as much anti-semetic as it is anti-muslim although the only slight hiccup being they didn’t pause to consider if the ban included sikh turbans or not, one clueless MP said at the time “Are there any Sikhs in France?”
Their reasoning is this - you can’t be discriminated against for being Jewish, Muslim etc. if no one can tell what religion you are just by looking at you.
A mix.
Essentially silenus is talking sense oh, and add that it is unseasonably warm and it has been quite pleasant outside at night - ie it’s not as if they are braving sub zero temperatures to fight for a specific cause.
IMHO we in Europe are really going to have to find a solution to this ‘underclass’ that we’ve allowed to develop in our countries sharpish. (For the record the 'underclass, in the UK at least, is just as likely to be white as any other shade.)
One woman on crutches was doused in flammable liquid and set on fire.
The officials think things may have gotten under control, with a lot of parents keeping their kids at home. My question is…why did they wait so long? My children are not free to roam the streets after dark.
Um, I’m aware. That was kinda my whole point.
Again, I’m aware and I never said anything different.
Wow, lots of responses to my simple query;
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“Money”: Well if you cherish your fundemental beliefs so much and your new country doesn’t hold with them that’s kind of venal isn’t it? “I’ll work for the devil but he is not me.” Sounds like selling out cheaply to me.
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“Family safety? Freedom of choice? Money? Career opportunities that you didn’t have in the Old Country? Basic human rights oppression? You don’t want your daughters and sons raised under a dictator? The want of a better life?”-- But aren’t those among the fundemental beliefs of the new country that you don’t believe in? Except for the Money and Career opportunities–see 1 above.
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“Those wacky Pilgrims, bringing their flaky hybrid patchwork monotheism to the New World. They’ll never make it over there.” I wish they would have left their monotheism and crazy rightousness in the old country. There is nothing inherently wrong with a nipple (JJ super-bowl reference). And I fear that the Christian right nutsies in this country are as crazy as the Muslim nutsies in other countries. (Not to say that all Christians and all Muslims are nutsies, just the fringy folk).
Then you fucking obey the rules of your hosts - NO EXCEPTIONS - or you’re out!
Same thing here in Europe ! Took me several days to find a mention of Muslims. But every knows who they are. Oh yeah, they are a minority. But look what a minority can do. :mad: