I hope not. I’m all with you stranger. But many of them are already there. ( 
= sad)
In the U.S. even if you have become a citizen, if you commit a felony you can be deported. Hopefully, France will deport the people they have arrested so they can go back to their own country, especially if they now find it so bad in France that they will burn, rob, terrorize and destroy what they initially thought was better. I think the government could stop the riots, but the actions they would have to take would make them targets for criticism. That, or spend billions of dollars on housing, jobs, social benefits, and still have them hate the French because they want to take their former way of life into a new country and isolate themselves and lash out at anyone who doesn’t allow them to abuse women, etc. There is prejudice against people who don’t speak your language and don’t have your customs or share your religion. That’s reality. I believe that if you want the benefits of improved economic and political circumstances don’t go to another country if you can’t accept and adapt to their way of life. I don’t believe there is any god-given right that after accepting the hospitality of a country you then riot in the streets to change it. Stay in your own country and change it. Or stay there and practice your religion in the way that you desire. Don’t come to my country and use up our resources to change my country into the sorry mess that you came from.
Wow, speechless
suezeekay this is the first time I’ve seen a post of yours and well, it more than annoyed me quite frankly but I’m choosing to think your attitude stems from a real ignorance about the facts of this case and I’ll try and keep my reply civil. I’d like to quote from a post I made in this thread
“The current problems are in the suburbs … the youth involved are the offspring of a previous generation of immigrants. Like many European countries France has a hard time finding work and hope to give young people who have grown up in relative poverty. I guess if you (are made to) feel like an outsider too the alienation just grows.”
Which country would you suggest these people to go back to exactly ? The Parisien paper today reported that most of the ‘rioters’ are aged 15 - 24 and uneployed or suspended from state education. They were born and brought up here, the country they consider home has failed to give them a sense of worth or hope for the future.
Your comments don’t make any sense to me.
The pêople involved in the riots are not protesting against or for any particular cause or law; they are simply young kids with nothing better to do but express their frustration by burning cars and trying to outdo their ‘rivals’ from the next suburb along. Their ‘isolation’ is not a choice, a community who has chosen to live outside French society, but a natural consequence of the economic and social conditions which exsist in the greater Paris area - for example the rapid construction of large scale housing to cope with the post war population growth, high unemployment levels, poor provision of transport and support services. Your casual non sequitor about abusing women doesn’t even merit the dignity of a response.
“Effects of L.A. Riots Reach Across the Ocean”, San Francisco Chronicle, Jun 21, 1992 (emphasis added):
“The French Ask: Can L.A. Happen Here?; Alienated Immigrant Population, Class Differences Stir Worries of Urban Strife”, The Washington Post, May 12, 1992 (emphasis added):
Oh, get over it. People who think they are taking the moral high ground are always shocked when people disagree with them.
I’m afraid that a government can’t “give” you a sense of worth or hope for the future. If they can’t stay in school, it looks to me that they have pretty much made their own decisions about where their life is headed. Normal people, even poor ones, don’t burn old ladies or destroy other people’s property in order to raise their self-esteem.
I live in a place where we don’t even have a taxi or a bus system. We have one grocery store. People work three small jobs to support their families, when they can find a job that is. I don’t see them blaming the government or rioting.
And if these people feel isolated what about their parent’s responsiblity to integrate themselves into the community? If it’s like it is here, they remain apart, never learn english (French in their case) and stay away from anyone who doesn’t follow their beliefs.
You didn’t mention the word Muslim, but the papers here say they are Muslim youths. That’s why I made the remark about abusing women. I don’t agree with forced marriage, only seeing other men in the presence of relatives, wearing any sort of cover on my head, killing women because they commit adultry or have sex before marriage. I don’t like those beliefs and wouldn’t want to live in a community with those people. that’s why I said they should stay in their own country because to come to a country where they are going to come full-force against a culture that rejects those beliefs is asking for major trouble.
I think their behavior is despicable and immoral and wrong. I don’t care how many excuses you come up with. Lots of people can find solutions to the problems in their lives without commiting such terrible acts. If you want to say it’s your fault go ahead.
Yes, because we all know only Muslims abuse women.
:rolleyes:
By Cat Jones:
French forces retreating? How odd.
Seriuosly though how is withdrawing and let a 10 day old riot continue better for the situation? Because it might be dangerous to confront them? They are setting buildings, cars and people on fire! They are getting cocky and trying to one-up each other! It’s already as dangerous as it’s going to get and its only pure blind luck someone hasn’t died yet.
“Why” isn’t a question people should be asking at this point. On the first day yes, same on the second and maybe on the third, but on the tenth day? :rolleyes:
"How " is the question of the day. How do you end it? The same way you end every riot, with cops forcing curfews themselves not having la mamá and le papá asking little pierre to please stay home tonight and not torch ambulances. They should confront the rioters not back away from them. That’s pretty much the reason why it has escalated IMHO, because they don’t feel threatened by police forces.
And the fact that most of the kids rioting were born in France doesn’t give you any trouble in suggesting such simplistic attitudes?
You really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, do you?
What, these kids don’t have parents? Where’s the accountability for one’s actions? Insurrection should have a steep price, citizens or not.
I was wrong. It’s not under control
It’s spreading to other cities. It doesn’t seem the police can stop this yet. Is there no curfew imposed? They’re attacking day care centers and housing projects.
Yikes…I’m beginning to wonder if there’s not something more going on here.
I think it’s a given that people who are accorded a degree of dignity, and have at least some hope of a better future, are unlikely to riot. A country can only prop itself up by riding on the backs of the poor for so long; at some point, all hell is going to break loose. Western Europe has been importing cheap labor from Africa and the middle east for some time now, and treated the immigrants badly for just as long. These riots should come as no surprise.
I don’t have a working knowledge of the way Europeans think. I know there are strong currents of nationalism and post-colonial superiority that don’t quite translate to my experience. But, as an American, I do have some knowledge of what can happen when a group of people is treated like crap.
Unfortunately, nothing good ever comes out of something like this unless the people who are participating in the unrest find effective leadership. One has to hope that maybe there’s a Martin Luther King there waiting for history to call.
Why the Hell haven’t the damn French cops broken out the live ammunition yet?
I had to laugh at this quote:
I had an Animal House flashback, where Kevin Bacon is standing on the sidewalk during the parade, screaming “Be calm! All is well!” while the town riots around him.
Huh? You’re saying that the punishment meeted out to French citizens should vary according to their parents’ place of birth? And if they’ve lived their whole lives in France, the ‘then you’re out’ bit becomes awkward…where’ya gonna send them?
Is that a serious question? This whole thing kicked off after a couple of kids ended up dead in disputed circumstances involving the police. A few more dead guys would really calm things down :rolleyes:
This column had an interesting theory about why France wasn’t gung-ho on the war in Iraq. Maybe one of the reasons was
Question for anyone local to Paris. . .has any of this reached “Charenton” as far as you know?
My sister lives there. I just got back from a vacation, and haven’t talked to her. I emailed her today, but probably after she left work.
I couldn’t find a map of places this has affected.
Actually, I just found this map. . .
One of those spots is pretty close, actually.